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April 23rd, 2014
10:25 PM ET
AC360 Exclusive: Deadly delays at VA hospital
A VA Hospital looked like a model of efficiency on paper, but as many as 40 veterans died while waiting for medical care there. Senior Investigative Reporter Drew Griffin found a doctor who says the hospital hid the deadly secret by keeping two sets of waiting lists. It is the most shocking example yet in AC360's ongoing investigation of U.S. Military veterans dying while waiting for care at VA hospitals.
CNN.com has more on this investigation.
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Post by: AC360 Filed under: Drew Griffin • Exclusive • Keeping Them Honest • VA Investigation • Veterans |
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people who serve this great nation deserve better treatment.
During the 2015 VA Budget hearing Allison Hickey told Bernie Sanders that the backlog is only 125 days out. My husband has been waiting for over 5 years for an appeal through VA. In Jan I filed 5 new claims for him due to illnesses associated with Agent Orange from serving on the DMZ in Korea during the Viet Nam Era. I must say I am damn angry that our VA system is ignoring our veterans. Not only the VN vet, but other veterans as well. Such as those who served in Saudi whom have Gulf War Syndrome. We now have veterans whom are returning home with brain injuries and the system will continue to be broken if we as Americans do not stand up and stand firm against what is taking place with all veterans. From a sister whom had a brother killed in Viet Nam.
"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by our nation." - George Washington.
Those who have served to defend our country deserve the best medical care that can be provided. For many years, despite two wars in Southeast Asia, the Veteran's Administration had received no increase in its budget. From the 2010 (which began in October 2009) through the proposed 2015 federal budgets, there have been modest but steady increases in the VA's budget. Not everything can be fixed with more money, and what is used must be spent wisely, but the VA is still caring for those WWII veterans who are fortunately still with us, and the Korean and Vietnam veterans are needing more care as they continue to age. Those who served after Vietnam were all volunteers, and excellent VA care was part of the obligation owed to them by the rest of us. Those who have served in war zones over the past thirty years are still not receiving all of the care that they need, for various reasons. That need will only increase over the next fifty or more years that the veterans of the wars started in the early 2000s will still hopefully be around. Congress holds the purse strings on the VA, and we should ALL shout loudly that our heroes should not be stinted because of Congress' poor choices in the past and present. Most of the problems noted by the posters here can be solved by hiring more physicians and using them wisely; let Congress know that, also.
I'm surprised Anderson that you and CNN seem to think this is something new and only happening in AZ. I hope I misunderstood you tonight. As a military Mom, from a family that has fought for this country since the Revolutionary War, I am disgusted at the way our Vets are still being treated, and sadly nothing changes except for the numbers dying from physical and mental health. PLEASE Anderson Cooper do as you say and don't let this story go away. Help save our children and spouses.
Also be aware, if you already aren't, that the treatment for PTSD begins in theater when the always lose paperwork, and continues with humiliation once back at home base. This is a nightmare that must end!
I'm a vet who was told in 1976 (age 22), that I'd been in a wheelchair by the time I was 50. It took to age 53, but without getting some -outside- care, I would have been. I had good insurance at the time, and found a neurosurgeon who could fix the problems the VA said they couldn't.
Last night, I made a long post on Disqus about my last year dealing with the VA in Kentucky, and how their neglect and refusal to address given medical problem left me in the hospital 3 times - with a ruptured spermatic cord and huge groin hematoma once, then with ruptured diverticula and colonic bleeding, and finally with a (luckily very small) stroke. All because they weren't paying ongoing attention to my issues.
Unfortunately, the Disque team seems to have thought it was too long, or something, because they deleted it.
There ARE good people at the VA - you just have to look for them.
Unfortunately, the VA is a government agency and follows the government's model: spend more money in administration than in result-producing personnel. If you look at any VA (you can substitute government for VA anywhere in this post) building you see beautiful facades that cost millions of dollars, but these facades come at the expense of services. VA administrators usually form a clique that plays power games with their subordinates. The worst of those is with primary care. Doctors are considered the lowest hierarchical wrung in the decision-making leader for a patient. They are forced to work up to 18 hours a day doing computer work that should be done by nurses, jeopardizing the quality of care the veterans receive. Administrators subject the primary care doctors to the whims of the nursing staff. Those who complain about the system suffer discrimination in the form of overbooking or understaffing.
The Albuquerque, NM, VA hospital is a great example of the lying, self-congratulating, inefficient administrators mentioned in this report. They tell their own employees, and the public, what a marvelous job they are doing, and how well staffed their clinic is. But a veteran has to wait up to 4 months for an appointment; unless he or she has a friend among the secretaries or nurses.
Another problem in the VA, which this report does not address, is the freedom with which doctors are told, frequently by nurses or patient advocates, to prescribe narcotics. Many doctors end up prescribing without even speaking to the patient. A local (Albuquerque) news channel presented a story on drug deals that happen in the McDonalds parking lot, across the street from the VA hospital. Many veterans get their drugs from the VA, cross the street and sell them to dealers or users. If the doctors had the authority and the time to check these patients properly, this problem would be at least reduced, if not terminated.
I saw part of your coverage on the deadly delays at the VA hospitals, and I can attest that this is all real. As a 38-year old veteran on disability, I count on them to take care of my health and issues with pain from injuries that were caused by my service in the Navy. I have currently been waiting for surgery to remove a growth from my knee (which may or may not be cancerous) for over three years now. It is incredible painful, and limits my ability to work, and in turn, my income.
I have been turned away several times from scheduled surgery due to total incompetence, such as overbooking the OR, 2 days before I was scheduled to go under the knife.
In addition, I have been repeatedly denied the proper medication (Celebrex) that would would ease my joint pain because it doesn't come in a cheap generic form. My doctor told me that she would write me the prescription (therefore admitting that I need it) , but that I would have to pay the $300 a month to have it filled. She then went on to say that the VA will not prescribe Celebrex to a patient UNTIL they have a GI bleed caused by taking large quantities of less-effective anti-inflammatory medications over an extended amount of time...which to me in like not giving a person glasses until they're already blind. I won't go into gory details of what the symptoms are of a GI bleed, but they are disturbing and involve blood loss from places that aren't remotely normal. I have said symptoms, and have repeatedly told them of these issues, to no avail or even remote amount of concern. Bottom line- I am a 38 year old female whose body is now functioning like that of someone decades older. The VA does not care.
Just curious, but aside from the decreased risk of GI bleeding, what is it that makes you believe that celecoxib is the perfect medication for you? Being expensive and brand name does not mean that a drug is inherently better. COX2 inhibitors like celecoxib certainly have a lower risk of GI bleeding than the older COX1 NSAIDs, but not zero risk. And all COX2 inhibitors except celecoxib have been proven to increase platelet adhesion (which is the bad side of the COX1/COX2 difference) which greatly increases the risk of a heart attack. They have been taken off the market for that very reason; one of the manufacturers even knew about the increased risk of heart attacks but kept the data hidden. Celecoxib's manufacturer states that theoretically their drug's molecular structure shouldn't affect platelets, but I am not aware of a medical study that proves that there is no increased risk of MI for patients taking celecoxib. At age 38, admittedly your risk of MI is not extremely high, but given the seriousness of that risk I would not even offer to prescribe that medication for you. GI bleeds are certainly serious, but are more easily survivable than heart attacks and usually do not leave any lasting effects in the future, such as congestive heart failure. Your VA doctor can probably request the pharmacy for celecoxib once you have tried several of the other NSAIDs that are on the formulary. You might find one of them that works for you, though the individual response to NSAIDs is notoriously variable so don't get discouraged; it is better than being in pain or paying $300 per month for something that may not be better or safer for you. You can alsways choose what you will and won't do, but if you want to get a medication or a treatment through the VA you must work with your physician and within the VA's guidelines, which have been designed mainly with safety in mind, such as by using older drugs with a longer track record. Some of those COX1 NSAIDs have been used for 50 years or more, and aspirin is more than 100 years old. How long has celecoxib been used in humans? What might happen in thirty or forty more years if you take it for that long? Does the platelet adhesion problem with other COX2 inhibitors also apply to celecoxib? Those are the risks that doctors must consider before prescribing, even if you choose to not consider them.
VA in Fayetteville, NC can be added to this list. My husbands been getting to "run around" trying to make an appointment for over a year. He finally was scheduled for one last Dec and was notified days in advance they were canceling BC his doctor retired. They have nothing but excuses since then why he can't get an appointment. To appease him they have him a doctors name/number and told him to call the news clinic. It was number for mental health clinic and they'd never heard of said doctor. He's had no returned phone calls (or rescheduled appt) since.
One of the worse days of my life
The VA “veteran’s affairs” once again makes hell for me. My mom went to the ER. They keep my mom over night and while she was still in the ER she started to act strange. I mean like she was zoning out for like 10 mins, then she snapped out of it and so after that she seem like she wasn’t there or like she was seeing thing that wasn’t there and she wasn’t makes any sense. She said that the TVs and computer have taken over the world. She got so bad that the doctors had to tie her down, NOT give her something to go to sleep or calm her down. Then she stopped talk or moving, it was like she wasn’t there. It was early morning that the doctor had told me my mom had a stroke and that she was going to need to be put into a nursing home, that she was dangerous, but what really got me most is the doctor told me that she got a year to live. There weren’t going to release her because she wasn’t safe.
I went home and got started on get my mom into a nursing home and I called the family. I finally got everything together. A couple days later I get a call from my mom’s nurse, she told me that I could pick my mom up. Pick her up? I was told that I couldnt, that she was to dangerous, she needed to be at a nursing home and she can’t take care of herself. That is what the doctor said to me that day my mom was in the ER. I went to the VA and my mom was alert, she was awake and she was fine.
I feel like an idiot because when the doctor said she had a stroke and that she was dieing. I should have realized for the doctor to come up with something like that, they would have to run test. Which they didn’t. Only blood work and that wouldn’t show up. One of the reasons for my mom to act that way was not sleeping for 4-5 days. She slept while there and she most of got enough slept to think clearly. She’s fine and took her home.”There is another thing that caused it but that will be in another blog”
When I was told my mom was dieing and that there was nothing for me to do. I felt alone and scared. I didn’t know what to do; I was 20 years old at the time. I had no one to get help with what was going on. I was so angry with what that doctor did. I keep checking my mom to make sure she is still breatheing.
One of the worse days of my life
The VA “veteran’s affairs” once again makes hell for me. My mom went to the ER. They keep my mom over night and while she was still in the ER she started to act strange. I mean like she was zoning out for like 10 mins, then she snapped out of it and so after that she seem like she wasn’t there or like she was seeing thing that wasn’t there and she wasn’t makes any sense. She said that the TVs and computer have taken over the world. She got so bad that the doctors had to tie her down, NOT give her something to go to sleep or calm her down. Then she stopped talk or moving, it was like she wasn’t there. It was early morning that the doctor had told me my mom had a stroke and that she was going to need to be put into a nursing home, that she was dangerous, but what really got me most is the doctor told me that she got a year to live. There weren’t going to release her because she wasn’t safe.
I went home and got started on get my mom into a nursing home and I called the family. I finally got everything together. A couple days later I get a call from my mom’s nurse, she told me that I could pick my mom up. Pick her up? I was told that I couldnt, that she was to dangerous, she needed to be at a nursing home and she can’t take care of herself. That is what the doctor said to me that day my mom was in the ER. I went to the VA and my mom was alert, she was awake and she was fine.
I feel like an idiot because when the doctor said she had a stroke and that she was dieing. I should have realized for the doctor to come up with something like that, they would have to run test. Which they didn’t. Only blood work and that wouldn’t show up. One of the reasons for my mom to act that way was not sleeping for 4-5 days. She slept while there and she most of got enough slept to think clearly. She’s fine and took her home.”There is another thing that caused it but that will be in another blog”
When I was told my mom was dieing and that there was nothing for me to do. I felt alone and scared. I didn’t know what to do; I was 20 years old at the time. I had no one to get help with what was going on. I was so angry with what that doctor did. I keep checking my mom to make sure she is still breatheing.
PLEASE, CNN, don't let this story fade away!!! There's much going on in the world right now...including this.
The VA thinks that all of my mom’s problems are mental. My mom was having seizures, and they didn’t believe her. They were saying it was all in her head…
After the third seizure I got fed up.
I told them that if they didn’t find out what was wrong I was going to the media. They got scared when I said that.
Thats when they found out that she had hyperthyroidism and that there was a tumor in her throat. So my mom went into surgery to have the tumor removed in June of 2012.
After the first surgery the surgeon came out and informed me that they got two tumors out of my mom’s throat and the she had high blood preasure..
And then 5-10 mins later the surgeon came out again and said radiology got it wrong. The tumor was on the other side of her throat, so on the same day not more then 20 mins after surgery , they went into the other side of her throat to remove the tumor.
Once that was complete the surgeon came back and told me that they removed one tumor from the correct side of her throat.
To this day, Mom keeps having seizures.
Later on we found out the surgeon took out three GOOD parts of her thyroid, and they left the tumor inside her throat, untouched.
The surgeon said days before the surgery that he was goes to do an exploratory on her, but he didn’t do that. He went in and just took what ever out. He keeps bragging about having to do this to 500 PEOPLE. How many of those 500 people are walking around with a tumor.
When the finally took the tumor out in November, a different surgeon did the unthinkable and PUT THE TUMOR IN HER ARM. They didn’t even tell her they were going to do that. They took 4 small pieces of the tumor and put it in her arm. My mom will have to go back into surgery and have one of those pieces removed. She will have to keep going back into surgery at lease 4 times.
Now she has even more problems than when this process started. She will have heart attack, heart problems, blood pressure, stocks, kidney stones and kidney failure and seizures for the rest of her like. I fear she will not be around long.
Anderson, keep digging! This seems to be agency wide and has been going on for a long time. My father proudly served in the Navy for 22 years. He lived in northern NY near Fort Drum and was always able to get his medical needs taken care of on base. After my mother passed away, my father moved out to Wisconsin with me. After about a year and a half, he developed severe pain in his back. We got him in with a civilian doctor. This was in March of 1999. Finally in June they discovered that he had bone cancer that had spread to almost all parts of his skeletal system. They could not find a source, and believed it was possible that it was from agent orange. It really didn't matter, there wasn't much that could be done. Pain management was the priority. We had difficulty affording the amount of medications he needed. I called the VA and was told that he had to be seen by their doctors only, they would not accept the medical records of the civilian doctors. I was told there was a waiting list in Madison, but we could go to Milwaukee. They saw patients on a first come first serve basis so arrive early. We lived 70 miles away! Getting to the doctor's office was excruciating for him. I couldn't imagine trying to get him to Milwaukee and then not knowing how long we would have to wait. We went on the waiting list. This was July. Dad died in September. A year almost to the day, I received a letter from the VA in Madison telling me that they would be able to schedule an appointment for him. You know, I really want heath care for everyone. ObamaCare? May I point out that we already have a government run health care system. If they can't take care of the minority of people who put their lives on the line for this country, how are they going to take care of the rest of us?
These people maybe should be thankful that they didn't get seen at the VA. I have been my brother's conservator for 2 years. He is a Vietnam Vet and was sprayed with Agent Orange several times a day in the DMZ for a year. He was diagnosed with Lewey body dementia (similar process to Parkinson's but much worse affects the entire brain) two years ago. After ALOT of paperwork and struggling, his benefits were denied by the VA since Parkinson's is considered an agent orange disease not Lewey body dementia. (I wonder which group has the better lobby in DC) He has been getting substandard care for two years and the VA finally killed him last month. He was hospitalized for pneumonia for 3 days discharged to a nursing home and died 24 hrs after discharge from sepsis, pneumonia. Multiply this scenario multiple times and maybe any other care or no care might be better. (By the way, the VA also hospitalized him for 4 months against his will ....I believe there is a term for that and in this country it isn't legal...but they are the VA and can do whatever they want)
My experience with the VA hospital has been dreadful. I am a slightly disabled Vet & have been made to wait for many hours as others have stated. Please examine other issues at the VA like the staff (not nurses) have been surly and delaying my discharge paperwork just because they can. It is as if they want to make you mad. I believe the staff's goal is to make patients so frustrated that they will refuse to return. I wound up with a broken arm (the ball broke off my humerus) when I fell off my bicycle. After watching (monitoring) the level of calcium in my blood for years, it was out of "normal" range and my bones became fragile. I never imagined that high (or low?) calcium levels in my blood would lead to thinner and more fragile bones. I now have an artificial shoulder and sometimes it hurts so bad I can't stand the pain- especially in the morning.
The Phoenix VA hospital's treatment had improved in the late '80s. I suppose that was because the number of Vietnam veterans became fewer and fewer. Of course the WW2 veterans were decreasing as well.
Now the VA system is seeing many more patients because of the Persian Gulf wars. Like after Vietnam many of us needed help and in my case it took TEN years before they finally relented and agreed I had issues.
So now the pendulum has swung back and the personnel (staff, nurses and doctors) are overwhelmed and in my opinion they are frustrated and feel that they have to "produce", meaning they must see more patients in a day and cannot provide top quality medical service to their patients. We patients feel their stress and complain bitterly because our country made a promise to us when we took our oath and now our government is backing out its promise to us.
The "rules" change every year or so. Even though I'm "service connected" I have to copay for my medicine. The copay is $8.00 regardless of what it is. I have to decide if the prescription is cheaper at a retail pharmacy. I wonder how much money they make by charging so much for the medicines they get a discount?.
One of the worse days of my life
The VA “veteran’s affairs” once again makes hell for me. My mom went to the ER. They keep my mom over night and while she was still in the ER she started to act strange. I mean like she was zoning out for like 10 mins, then she snapped out of it and so after that she seem like she wasn’t there or like she was seeing thing that wasn’t there and she wasn’t makes any sense. She said that the TVs and computer have taken over the world. She got so bad that the doctors had to tie her down, NOT give her something to go to sleep or calm her down. Then she stopped talk or moving, it was like she wasn’t there. It was early morning that the doctor had told me my mom had a stroke and that she was going to need to be put into a nursing home, that she was dangerous, but what really got me most is the doctor told me that she got a year to live. There weren’t going to release her because she wasn’t safe.
I went home and got started on get my mom into a nursing home and I called the family. I finally got everything together. A couple days later I get a call from my mom’s nurse, she told me that I could pick my mom up. Pick her up? I was told that I couldnt, that she was to dangerous, she needed to be at a nursing home and she can’t take care of herself. That is what the doctor said to me that day my mom was in the ER. I went to the VA and my mom was alert, she was awake and she was fine.
I feel like an idiot because when the doctor said she had a stroke and that she was dieing. I should have realized for the doctor to come up with something like that, they would have to run test. Which they didn’t. Only blood work and that wouldn’t show up. One of the reasons for my mom to act that way was not sleeping for 4-5 days. She slept while there and she most of got enough slept to think clearly. She’s fine and took her home.”There is another thing that caused it but that will be in another blog”
When I was told my mom was dieing and that there was nothing for me to do. I felt alone and scared. I didn’t know what to do; I was 20 years old at the time. I had no one to get help with what was going on. I was so angry with what that doctor did. I keep checking my mom to make sure she is still breatheing.
My husband was seen by the Phoenix VA granted they do have a great mental health program but Primary Care SUCKS.. He waited 5 months too get the results of some testing they done on his liver that the count wof this blood work was so elevated it worried his mental health doctor.. his primary care doc didn't seem to ever care. Even some the workers didn't care.. One popped off at the mouth one day and said well we are short staffed and can't afford to hire another doctor and that's why it was taking awhile to get him in. We currently reside in Alabama and he currently sees the Tuscaloosa VA medical center andnow his primary care doc is amazing but his mental health no so much I think you need to look at all VAs not just one.. or maybe look at the scrappy pay that our Veterans get or why it takes them so long to do claims when social security disability is faster.. our Veterans deserve better than what they receive they defended us and our country but they have the crappie end of the deal. They deserve to be treated with care so what if they have PTSD so what if they have a TBI so what if they are missing a limb they just want to be treated like they matter..
Do you think throwing up blood is an emergency?
Well the VA “veterans affairs” hospital does not.
Ill tell you what Im talking about. My mom has been going to the ER and doctors” VA of course “ about stomach pain and problems with eating for awhile. She started throwing up blood. Took her to the VA ER and a couple hours later a nurse comes in and tells my mom that throwing up BLOOD is NOT an emergency and that she didn’t need to be there. They were going to have her signed out until I went to get the nurse manger. They only kept her over night. They didn’t try and find out why she was throwing up blood and to this day my mom is still sick and they don’t do a thing that helps, they just make her worse..
My husband is a veteran, and I must say we have waited 3 to 4 hours to take a blood test,and two to four hours waiting for a prescription. As sad as it is "THEY DO NOT CARE". Men and women gave up so much for this country and this is what they get in return. SHAME ON THE VA, AND SHAME ON THE GOVERNMENT for letting it get this far. The government has given up on our veterans. It is a slap in the face to the veterans and their families.
I cannot begin to express how incredible this is to me!!! You are right!! The government doesn't care about our men who served our country and have sacrificed their lives for us. Let's just through them under the bus or just forget that they exist.