Editor's note: Jocelyn Zichterman talks about growing up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church and says she was beaten.
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I applaud your willingness, Jocelyn, to stand up and fight for those who can't!! Thank you!! I also grew up IFB and did experience the abuse and witnessed it first-hand at Fairhaven. I don't understand why ppl are defending the IFB rather than get on board with you against this abuse!! In MY Bible it lables the fruits of the spirit as love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, and self control...is ANY of this visible in these abusive institutions?? Please stop being offended by "accusations" and help stop this abuse that IS happening!!!
I grew up attending an IFB church, going to school at the academy, and as a teenager, I loved the youthgroup. My parents disciplined me the Bible way, and I wouldn't be the person I am today without it. God's way works! But our discipline sessions were usually less than 10 seconds! Of course I don't believe in spanking for hours –are you crazy!?! But there are extreme situations everywhere! Look at the Catholic church; look at drug babies, and many other abuse situations that have nothing to do with IFB churches! To pull out a few stories and then smack a label on every IFB church is ridiculous and nonsensical! Don't let your own tough experiences taint and ruin your whole outlook on life! God is still
I grew up "IFB" and did get an occasional spanking where my parents would use a wooden stick (dowel rod) on my butt and usually give me between 5-7 swats. It didn't happen often, and even today I believe that some situations call for it. However, I believe their position on spanking wasn't really a result of their church affiliation as much as a result of their own upbringing "back in the day". I also attended Fairhaven and can testify that I witnessed a 2 year old girl receive 10 swats for falling asleep in church and she received more for crying while the swats were being administered. I also sat in sermons where Roger Voegtlin demonstrated how to effectively spank an infant so that it would not leave marks.
This was definitely unbalanced report. NOT all IFB people are this extreme. Not one church that I have attended (IFB) talked in this manner or exercised this extreme punishment on their children. Stop taking a simple act of spanking and making them all out to be beatings. She may have experienced the extreme, but not all are of the same thought. Their was nothing wrong in what the Pastor stated from Fairhaven. All he did was give a definition of what spanking was. Our families lack proper discipline these days. Maybe you should do a segment on the harsh punishment the Muslims dish out. Be fair and balanced in your reporting!
IFB churches are as different in their beliefs as Baptist Churches everywhere are different. My church doesn't offer any advice on how to physically discipline a chlid or even suggests that a child should be physically disciplined. Its really unfair to say that the IFB churches all believe the same thing. This stuff needs to come out but single out the perps and don't paint everyone with a broad brush. Until now, I'd hever heard any Pastor suggest you need to break a child's will. I don't doubt it happens. We just don't abuse our kids where we come from.
These guys are the worst of the worst and have broken arms, robbed widows of estates, spoken presumtuously against hurting folks, displayed complete self willedness, and fit the Lidia Shatts case to the tee. They need to exposed, and the state needs to step in; who cares if they have politcal power with extreme right wing cooks.
Remember on Kilroy was here how Dr. Righteous was able to gain control of the media because of His charismatic nature and performance. Don't be surprised if the extreme right wing turns this upside down, and the bad guys become the good and the good appear to bad, oppressors of free thinking religious, right wings Fundamentalist.
Yes Cheryl, the training up a child involves primarily teaching him or her God's ways as we walk with them by the way in life's journey. Spanking is used on rare occasions as needed and not as a means of training a child. Fairhaven as you know advocates beating babies as a means of training, even at one or two months old. Other factors are important, one must be right with God to properly train their children, otherwise, talking to them by the way, spanking, and discipline mean nothing if one is not right with God. That is why they have failed, they are not right with God, hence they resort to attempt beating the will and lights out of kids to attempt forcing them into submission of the pastor's authority. He by no means is a man of God, but rather a man of SATAN.
I watched your show tonight and t was very intuitive. However our military schools do the same and worse if you care to research it. Very sad about those two sisters though. They will undoubtedly get the same in prison.
I have been in the IFB my entire life (I am now 39 years old), and I have never experienced or seen among fellow IFB's that I know the kind of abuse of discipline this woman speaks of. When I was a child, I did get spanked, but they were a couple swats with a paddle, and the duration of the spanking might have been 30 seconds...and I probably needed more spankings than I got, my parents never "beat" me! I think these people who are crying out about IFB abusers are just isolated cases, just like all school teachers aren't abusers, pedaphiles, etc. neither are all IFB's! To lump everyone in a group because a few along the way were bad apples, is not fair!! Abuse is everywhere, look at the Catholic church, the school system, all over our country, in all walks of life, these abusers exist...they are not just IFB people! To say that all IFB people are like that would be like saying every teacher in the public school system are like the one's who have had sexual relations with their studends...it just is not true!!!
Sorry, but Jocelyn Zichterman cannot speak for all Fundamental Baptists. She is projecting her own tragic experience on to an entire group, and the beliefs that she claims are true of all Fundamental Baptists simply are not.
I grew up in a time when children were disrespectful or naughty they got spanked. The church had nothing to do with it.
We have been refered to as the greatest generation
The passage at Proverbs 13:24 reads: "The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline." The rod referred to is a shepherds staff (see Psalm 23:4) A shepherd does not beat the sheep into submission, he uses it to guide them. Discipline has as its root word disciple. Jesus did not beat his disciples he taught them. These people are not acting like Christians, they are simply child abusers. Matthew 7:15-20 "by their fruits you will recognize those men."
While I haven't always agreed with everything you have done, thank you for your successful efforts to convict Warren Jeffs and to expose those who hide behind the name of God to intimidate and hurt others. God sees and God smiles upon you.
These people are snake charmers. They won't use their hand because their own hand would sting. They would be feeling the pain too.