Evening Buzz: Mission to Kill Doctor?
[cnn-photo-caption image=http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/CRIME/06/02/kansas.doctor.killed/art.roeder.mug.jpg caption= "Scott Roeder, 51, is being held on a first-degree murder charge and two counts of aggravated assault."]
Maureen Miller
AC360° Writer
The man accused in the shooting death of abortion provider Dr. George Tiller has been charged with first-degree murder. Scott Roeder, 51, appeared in a Wichita, Kansas courtroom today via a video hookup from jail. Prosecutors revealed today they won't seek the death penalty "under the facts and circumstances that are known at this time." That's what District Attorney Nola Foulston told reporters.
Police say Roeder shot and killed Dr. Tillman Sunday morning at his church, where he was serving as an usher.
Tonight, we'll have all the angles on the case. Don't miss the 360° exclusive interview with Roeder's ex-wife. She says his anti-abortion rhetoric was so strong it scared her. We'll also speak with another abortion provider who was friends with Dr. Tillman. Is he worried he could also be targeted for death? And, we'll talk with a woman who chose not to get an abortion even though she was told her baby wouldn't live that long after birth.
We also have breaking news on Air France Flight 447. Brazilian authorities are reporting tonight they found debris from the jet in the Atlantic Ocean, but no survivors. We'll show you where.
We'll also take you to Little Rock, Arkansas where a man is accused of homegrown terrorism. According to investigators, the man killed one U.S. soldier and wounded another at a military center yesterday because he was angry over the treatment of Muslims. The suspect is a Muslim convert. He pled not guilty to the charges today in court.
Join us for these stories and more starting at 10pm ET.
See you then!
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Filed under: Maureen Miller • The Buzz |
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The killing of Dr. Tiller is simply wrong. Yet the killing of the unborn is wrong as well. The violence against women, in the name of choice, is blindly accepted by many who are afraid to allow prenatal images and objective post-abortion impact research on women's physical and mental health to be objectively publicized. This cover-up is wrong. This civil war of values has shed too much blood already. May we at least take the step of requiring INFORMED CHOICE for mother's considering abortion. Could as much money be spent on caring for moms, babies, families as is spent on abortion?
May we move past the rhetoric and blindness on both sides to objectively study the process, pictures and results of abortion and then ask is this a final solution?
Hey insurance companies: How about paying for birth control so unwanted pregnancies don't occur? You sure were quick to allow Viagra to be covered.
Hey anti-choice people: How about stepping up to the plate and adopting or paying for all these children you seem to feel should be born regardless of the circumstances by which they were conceived? How about condemning the men who impregnated these women? I only know of one Immaculate Conception.
Hey IRS: How about bestowing full dependency status for a fetus from the time of conception for tax purposes? That will sure help the economy!
Hey America: It is a woman's body and her choice, and NO ONE has the right to tell her what she can and cannot choose to do with it.
bill mac leod is not representative of Canadians. Please don't think that he is. While Canada has its zealots, they are extremely rare. I would like to apoligize on behalf of all Canadians for that behavior as a born Albertan.
As for the murder of the doctor, the person that murdered him is a despicable person and I wish they gave him the death penalty. After all, he saw fit to do the same to the doctor.
Contrary to what zealots like to think, there is good reason for what he did.
The woman tonight who shared her story of NOT having a late term abortion was very moving. As was the woman yesterday who shared her story of having gone through with a late tem abortion because of fetal abnormalities.
The key word however should be Choice.
Each woman chose how to proceed in her situation. How would both of them have felt if there were no choice!
Each situation is personal and private to the woman and her family, it is so easy to make judgement when you are on the outside looking in.
I personally would not choose an abortion, however I could not accept losing my right to make that choice for myself and my family.
I am a women who has had an abortion and it was the best thing i could of ever done . I do NOT regret it in any way . The doctors and staff that do these procedures help women that have made this choice. I felt at that time I am not ready to be a mother and i do NOT feel comfortable giving my child away in adoption . I did what i think was my best choice and my boyfriend supported me all the way , WE decided that it was the best choice for US. The death of Dr. Tiller will be missed especailly with the GREAT work he did with US as women to choice when we are ready and when we are NOT ready to become a mother. DR.TILLER YOU WILL BE MISSSED.
What bothers me the most is that BOTH sides really show no compashion or understanding for others. Their only concern is to use intimidation, rallies, and even threats of death, just because someone doesn't agree with them! And here I thought this was the land of the free where people make their own decisions. As far as this idiot that MURDERED another human being. The death penalty is appropriate but will not happen due to state law, so lock him up & throw the key away! For those of you that openly support this scum bucket I would charge you with complicity & lock you up also!
Sharon S, I agree...it's a total hypocrisy to claim to be against murder but to go out & murder a doctor who is providing legal medical care to his patients. I wouldn't want a penny of my tax money used to feed & house that murdering hypocrite in jail.
I also find it disturbing that the anti abortion crowd fights so hard to "protect" life by denying women rights over their own bodies yet they support all the killings of war. So they believe that a cluster of cells not yet viable are more "sacred" than a live human being.
I trust that some day, people will evolve to have more respect for women than the misogynistic attitude that is shown every time the topic of abortion comes up.
I'm not in favor for what this person did, the cuestion is when we going to stop living on the way we living we should be responsible for things like that happen, just look around in honest way we can't control our selfs when we get bery angry, mostly children pay for this kind of action's !......
Just a comment I'm not trying to confuse to any one, but I believe no body have any right to abort , a fetus from day's or week's no matter what is the woman right's in any case ! My question to any one, any Woman or Man should be responsible for request an abortion this massive action's can be prevented in most situation's ?, Yes or No....
I wish everyone could understand how deeply and horribly abortion affects the lives of women and men who abort their babies. I believe that because abortion is legal there is incredible pressure to have an abortion to make the situation "Go Away". Anderson please talk to women who had abortions who suffer from the trauma of taking the life of their babies. This is something that is not explored enough. I would tell anyone "DONT EVER ABORT YOUR BABY!". Find a way to give it up for adoption and you will be happy to look at yourself in the mirror every day for the rest of your life. I wish that someone had stopped me from having an abortion.
Currently, abortion is the most common medical procedure in the USA for women. Approximately 1.5 million U.S. women with unwanted pregnancies choose abortion each year. In fact, 43% of American women will have an abortion sometime in their lifetime.
Does America want a society of forced pregnancies? Forced motherhood? Who exactly will take all those abandoned, unwanted, unloved infants? Does America want to be Romania circa 1966-1989?
If abortion is made illegal, what will be done with these women that break the law? Should 1 million + women per year be sent for jail for having an abortion? How much time should they be in jail? Or should they be executed? What kind of punishment would the children who get pregnant and abort be subjected to?
Abortion is not a crime, it is a way of life. Legal or not, good or bad. It simply is, around the world and across the span of time. It will not go away. So lets discuss ways to help women by providing quality medical, contraceptive and family planning services instead.
In fact, if you want to see what happens when abortion is made LEGAL, review Romania statistics 1989 to 2006, abortions went from almost 1,000,000 to 149,000 per year.
edit to my post re:Darla Abshire's comments. My "Especially when the person is SUFFERING" comment in paragraph 2 was in error, I had went back and reworded/reorganized some points and neglected to remove that sentence, which clearly doesn't make sense there. That sentence was to be applied to Ms. Carr's situation.
Peace.
In response to Darla Abshire, who said,"Babies are persons too and should not have their innocent lives shortened because someone thinks that they can take it upon themselves to play God."
I guess you're against things like antibiotics, life-support, and chemo, then, too, since technically that's man playing God. If you believe in natural birth, why not natural death too? Especially when the person is SUFFERING.
I don't understand how pro-lifers can make the above argument and yet ignore the fact that extending life through artificial means is playing God just the same, on the opposite end of the spectrum – even when people are suffering from incurable, debilitating, painful, crippling, and fatal illnesses/diseases, etc.
Since you're against abortion, do you believe in artificial life support?
Don't get me wrong – I don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control. And I'm not totally against medicine prolonging life and making it of a better quality (though I am against the medical system basing it's concerns mainly on profits...in other words, they make meds for "chronic" things instead of finding cures – which they are capable of doing and anyone who finds a cure is promptly silenced with threats – since chronic care is more profitable).
I also think the right to die isn't something that should be taken lightly, either. It should not be done carelessly and without much consideration. Here is a story that should drive that point home to you:
First, read up on Huntington's Disease:
google.com/search?hl=en&q=huntington%27s+disease+&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Next, read about Carol Carr and what she did for her sons in 2002, after they were incapacitated, in severe pain, and has lost all ability to function, BEGGING her to kill them (after she watched her husband and mother in law die the same horrific, tormenting death):
google.com/search?hl=en&q=carol+carr+huntington%27s+disease&aq=0&oq=Carol+Carr+hun&aqi=g2
I'm sure people will have vey opposing opinions on it, and I so wish I could find the television show I first saw her story on. It relates the story better than any article I've come across. That poor woman and her poor family. There was no hope at that time and her sons were suffering immensly, crying, and begging to die.
To each their own opinion. I just think these kinds of matters get oversimplified.
Peace to all.
Please help me to understand! I am a visitor from far away. You define death as the absense of a nature heart-beat and brain waives. Why do you not, (AT LEAST) use the same standard to define LIFE or ALIVE? That is what? 6-8 weeks? When a woman is murdered, (species suicide), while with-child, the husband was charged with 2 homicides. Yet you often argue it, (the life inside) not alive and with no right as a living being. You greave over the human who was shot in a religiouos gathering, as do we, and over each and every life! A religion that confesses that, "God hates the taking of INNOCENT LIFE" Yet, you honor not the religion you confess nor, greave for the 1.4235 million living humands that live inside their mothers, and who are destroyed every year. Dispite of your own evidence, (The Hard Truth & Silent Screams) which prove that these are living, feeling, humans, and that they suffer greatly during this most horrible death, you still persist on destroying them in these MOST BRUTAL ways. Yet ,too few in your society feel little or no pain, discrace for THEM. You speak of CHOICE; yes, it is yours to choose! Life or Death! Which will you choose??? Is it well, that your race should commit species suicide in so many ways and still consider yourself, sane, humane, and worthy of communion with the HOST OF HEAVENS???
Thank you for Diane Elder . . . what an amazing look and understanding of life. I held my baby girl as I watched the news and saw her spoke with tears streaming down my cheeks. Thank you for her story!
My wife and I had an an encephalic son who lived 13 hours. There was never any doubt in our minds as to whether our child would live or not. In our days X-rays were still part of the pre-birth procedure done 6 weeks prior to the expected delivery date. When I saw the
X-rays, there was no doubt in my mind either as to whether the child would live or not. Even with no medical training I knew that life was not an alternative for him. Our doctor too, felt he would die before birth. He preferred that my wife not see the child and we took his advice. I went to the funeral parlor to see our son. I had to be sure in my mind what his condition was. The brain appeared normal in size and shape, but totally exposed. There was no skull formation above the eyebrows. The child looked just like several of our other children in every other respect.
A cousin to my wife, Dr. Peggy Honein, a pathologist working in fetal disorders I believe, works for the Atlantic Center for Disease Control She sent me illustrated literature which made us know that there was no way in which our child could have lived. No way! If a way has been developed to handle such cases now, I wonder whether anyone would choose to live the rest of life taking care of a child with a plastic or metal skull, if even that were a possible option.
I suggest, Anderson that someone from the Center for Disease Control appear on your program to discuss the issue with you and to show photos or drawings of birth defects absolutely unimaginable.
The child my wife and I brought into the world has never been anything but OUR child. When we talk about our children, he is always included as a member of our family. Always!
Incidentally, our doctor delivered Henry in his office so that my wife would not be exposed to a hospital with healthy mothers and children at a time when she may not have been able to stand it. The doctor, a NON- CATHOLIC, baptized our child as it was being born. We are sure he is awaiting us wherever God has taken him.
With all due respect to the mother who chose to deliver her child with Trisomy 18 which is incompatible with life, she made a choice to bring that child into the world so that it would die a natural death. I do not believe that the baby's 12 hours of very difficult life and her agonal death, as described by the mother's observation of the baby's last breaths, was less painful than an instantaneous death in utero by a physician who is experienced in terminating a pregnancy quickly and mercifully.
The mother did "not want to have my baby die at my hands." She knew that the baby could not survive with the condition. She stated that when the baby was born, she and her family were happy. SHE wanted what happened to the baby to be "natural." SHE felt that the resolution was "a very good resolution." With all due respect to this mother who went through a very difficult situation, this was about the mother and father and family, and not necessarily about this unfortunate baby.
"We felt clean ... when it was over." "We felt closure..." Again, this is about the mother and the family, and not about the baby.
A quick in-utero termination may well have been less painful than delivery and 12 hours of distress and the final agonal death for this unfortunate baby.
Remember, those that think that a woman does not have a choice, you should be in the position to have to choose abortion or not. Nobody wants it, they HAVE to for many different reasons.
May the men and women that think that a woman should come to term for any reason that is not healthy experience the same thing and then make their stand. Until, don't condemn another person's choice, Lord knows, there are so many bad men that impregnate women and women ddin't get a choice now did they. Not they when they did their wonders, so they think. Women have the right to end anything that was done to them without their choice, at the adversity of their health and their mental health.
How dare anyone make some woman come to term for nine months with a monster in her belly. Why don't you men, come to terms with it???? Or mean women. The choice is that of the woman. Deal with it.
HI Anderson. I have always been pro-choice until more recently. Now I can see both sides of the issue clearly but I am leaning towards a pro-life stance. Maybe it was having children of my own that changed my mind, but I suddenly see that taking the life of a viable fetus is plain murder. And at that point, for me, no amount of discomfort or embarrassment on the part of the mother outweighs the child's right to life.
I know that doctors perform these late abortions but I don't really understand how, as healers, they are able to rationalize the procedure of methodically killing a baby. I have yet to hear of a real case where the mother's life was truly at serious risk and the baby was unable to be delivered at all. How many are there?
I loved the woman you had on your show, who allowed her daughter to grow and be born and live and die naturally 12 hours later. What a strong woman and an example to everyone, and what a treasured memory she has of those little eyes looking at the world.
Couldn't let Dr. Leroy Harrison Carhart get away with his comment that "abortion is about the heart" & his pin "listen to women."
The women I hear are saying "abortion hurts them; hurts families." My wife had an abortion before we met & I have seen first hand her woundedness over these past 28 years. The guilt of a woman who has allowed her own child to be violently murdered leaves a devastating scar.
Just Google Carhart's name & you will see the absolutely filthy clinic he & his wife ran. Apalling.
Numerous older news articles about Carhart cover allegations raised by his clinic administrator. The allegations included that Carhart:
Altered a patient chart on February 14, 1991
Engaged in telephone conversations during procedures in 1991
Refused to follow proper infection control procedures dealing with a patient with active tuberculosis June 14, 1991
Fell asleep injecting a patient June 14, 1991.
The clinic administrator who first reported these allegations also alleged that Carhart left an abortion patient on the table to go outside and throw rocks at the procedure room window on October 23, 1990. This was when Carhart was doing abortions at Women's Medical Center of Nebraska.
I know you love animals, Anderson. Read on.
Carhart has also been in trouble for non-abortion issues. News reports state that 4 of his 11 horses, and two dogs, were confiscated by the humane society due to neglect. An officer of the humane society said she had not obtained a warrant because the animals were in danger of death. She also said that the horses were in danger of starvation even though several large bales of inferior-quality hay were outside a fence, just beyond the reach of the horses. Some of the older horses had bite marks on their backs indicating that younger horses had driven them away from what food was available, and that the most skeletal of the horses, a 20 to 30-year-old female, had to be coaxed from a barn that was a foot deep in mud and excrement. The humane society spokesperson also said that Carhart "wasn't too happy" that she had taken the horses, and that he threatened to file charges against her.
(Source: Bellevue Leader 7-25-92)
Carhart is NOT the "caring" Dr. of your interview with him.To present him as such is disingenuous and potentially harmful to viewers.
Further, many partial birth abortions are induced lasting several days where the woman takes a drug & goes home to start the aborting process. Some end up bringing the dead baby back to the "clinic in a bag...having endured the horrific experience at home alone before their actual termination appointment. Selling of body parts is also a very profitable side business for these Drs. If it sounds disgusting; well it is and more.
anybody thought about the woman chose abortion did not dare to show her face on TV while the woman chose otherwise went on national TV with no problem. That paints the picture – one of the sides here is somewhat barbaric, so much that regular people are terrified... need we say more?
to Mary in Virginia: are you saying that the abortion process is not disgusting and that a baby taking a gasp or two of air is disgusting? Now, THAT perspective is disgusting!
I was very touched by Diane Elder's story. My heart goes out to her and her family. My first baby had Down Syndrome and died at 5 months of age. A few years later, a close friend had a baby with Trisomy 18 and another friend had an anacephalic baby. All of us chose the path that the Elder's did and just loved and cared for the babies. We accepted love and support from friends and family while nature took it's course. (My child is the only one of the three that had a chance at life, but his heart gave out despite medical care).
While I personally believe this should be the preferred way to handle such a situation, I understand that not every woman can go through such an ordeal. As a 'moderate' pro-lifer, I cannot see the point in guilting a woman into having the baby in this situation. It's far better just to love and support the woman and her family.
Trust me, it's a sad situation no matter how it's handled.
In response to Mary Steele...I am the woman on the show who gave birth to her baby and held her while she died. Angela was given a small amount of oxygen through a mask to ease her passing. While dying is never easy, her death was relatively painless compared to what it would have been like if she had been the victim of a late term abortion. In that scenario, she would have either been pulled apart, limb from limb, while still alive or burned alive with a saline solution. I could not let that happen to her. You say that you are disgusted with what I did but I would venture a guess that you have never seen what the victim of a late term abortion looks like. There are few images on earth that match the horror of it.
Dear Anderson,
The murder of Dr. Tiller was so shocking to me . I am a healthcare worker specializing in women's healthcare for over 3 decades. The people who profess to be Pro life are in essence Anti choice. The choice to end a pregnancy is a decision made by a woman, her doctor and family. It is never easy. If men were the birthgivers , there would be no argument as to the right of choice. God bless Dr. Tiller and his family.
It deeply saddens me to think that people would go to such great lengths to prove their 'own point'. The person who killed this man, or agree with his actions, are speaking from their biased religious views rather than from a Doctor's point of view, who may or may not have believed in god.
What this man believed is besides the point; he was well within his legal rights to be doing what he was doing. After all, this man would not have had a job if it weren't for the individuals who sought him out. This man believed he was doing good, he was helping. He was not a killer. There is a big difference between what this doctor did for a living, and Roeder's successful calculated plot to take this mans life in cold blood.
Roeder- you are the killer, you are the murderer. You are not a martyr or a hero. Things will go on as they are, but hopefully steps will be taken to protect people, like Dr Tillman, from religious psychopaths like you.
What a wonderful interview, Anderson! I was deeply touched by Diane Elder's story and her decision to not cut her baby girl's life short. For the few hours that baby Angela lived outside of the womb she brought joy and love to so many, and she was able to be loved in return. Her life, though short, was indeed precious. What joy is there in abortion?
I can't say I've personally had to experience what Tiller's patient's have gone through, but I stood by my sisters side as she questioned whether she should abort her 20 week old baby which was dying inside of her or die with it. Tiller ultimetely saved my sister's life, and also saved her family which consisted of twin 3 year old boys. My heart goes out to the Tiller family. Somebody has to do what he did to save families like he did mine. If not him, then who? I truly feel that he knew what the consequences might eventually be. I know it may sound wrong, but I think he has his spot in heaven.
It makes me sick to think that Roeder will live. As a citizen of Kansas, we now have to deal with the fact that we have BTK and the Tiller assassin live their days in our prisons on our dimes.
I had an abortion two years ago. There is nothing easy about what goes on behind closed doors in abortion clinics. I try to put my mind at ease and forget about what went on that day, but it comes and goes in waves, unfortunately.
I was too young then to have a baby. (Black and white of it.) It was not the right time for me. It was my own fault that I had unprotected sex, I am fully aware of that. I am also fully aware that to you what I chose that day is wrong. But you cannot judge a woman who gets this done. You simply cannot. You do not know what goes through a women's mind, a women's heart... a women's soul.
I think the phrase ' Pro Life or Pro Choice' needs to be changed to be more reflective of the truth and not so politically correct. The choices are 'Pro Life or Pro Death'. Simple as that. I'm tired of groups or governments hiding their true agenda behind watered down words.
The Dr was killed becuase he was a killer. The only difference is he was allowed to kill Legally, as many babies as he cared to. His shooter does not have that same law given right,
In the end, while I do not agree with the shooters actions, I do see that maybe there will be a few innocent babies constitutional rights protected. You know... to live!
Lets just keep allowing women to be irrisponsible and get pregnant, and then say I have the right to choose. After they have already chosen! Sharon, as you state why not the death penalty for killing this doctor. Well why NOT the death penalty for the DR killing babies. Have you ever read what happens in late term abortions? THey allow the babie to crown, then make a slit into the top of the head with scissors and vaccuum the brains out. This way they can say it was born dead. How can anyone justify that as anything but murder. Horrific, painful, torturous, and terroristic are all appropriate adjectives here.
This world is getting worse every day. If we did what was right for the precious little victims, we would have thrown the DR into jail for a trial and then the death penalty, and also given him torture for each child he has murdered! ITs no different then if someone snatches a child from its family and takes it out and murders it. Life is Life. Death is Death. I pray the good doctor will have to face each of his victims in judgment before he is sent straight to hell!
you have no idea what it is like to be pregnant with an unplanned pregnancy. a child unwanted and unable to be provided for is a catastrophe. it's a catastrophe to that child's heart when it's mother abandons s/he and the parent never recovers from an abortion. let's not forget the fathers that are the unsung respondents in the situation, too...who easily escape responsibility. They are often too loud in their "anti-abortion" songs when in-fact, truth be told-they are just as responsible but time must take it's course....for responsibility to catch up; if, it does. Many, had an abortion NOT taken place, would have no soap box to stand on. Bless those that make a choice that is hard but sometimes necessary, and THE RIGHT decision, in some circumstances. Let's remember that 70% of our inmates come from Foster Care-ie...unwanted pregnancies and families that can't take care of their children. Let's bless those women that helped pass Roe vs. Wade and pray it's not overturned for the rest of our lives because children that are wanted, are children that are raised healthy both physically, and mentally...because their mothers can love and provide for them.
Anderson, thank you for having Diane Elder on the show. I believe there are many women that would decide to keep their babies, but its seldom reported. Thank you for showing the 360.
I do not support the murder of this man. However I cannot be sorry that he is no longer able to murder innocent babies. I feel the difference between his murder and the murder of all those babies is that the babies were innocent and the doctor was himself a murderer.
Abortion is the law in America. One may disagree, but it is the choice of the woman and her doctor, no one else. We would no more condone shooting married couples of different races, people voting whom we think should not have a say in our elections, etc.
There has been too much talk of murder and killing concerning abortion.
A woman has the right to choose regarding her own body. Reversing this right will not prevent abortions but bring back the back alley procedures.
While I don't agree that the man should not kill have killed the doctor, I am not angry that he is dead. He have been killing kids, so I guess he knows how he feels. I will agree if its a life and death situation or if a child is severely damage, abortion is an option but some people have a last minute decisions after a relationship goes bad or just feel that's its their body and they can do what they want . Late term abortion is wrong.
Dr. Tiller simply provided a choice for women. I am no for or against abortions and I personally would not want the person I got pregnant to get an abortion, but for others, it is their decision. I think people should worry about their own lives and not waste their energy on what other people do with theirs. What Roeder did was an extreme way to protest abortion, a way I view is much worse than performing abortions. My heart goes out to the Tiller family.
I have watched the dr who may take over the practice of Tiller. I personally was a patient at the young age of 19 who did NOT receive counseling in Tiller's office as portayed. In fact, Tiller and his nurse made my then spouse remove me from the basement due to screaming that he killed my babies. I learned as they were giving me anethesia and doing my sonogram, that I was infact carrying twins. I asked Tiller to stop and not to continue but woke up in the recovery area in the basement of the clinic screaming as noted above. Counseling for the mothers considering abortion consists of about 12-15 men and women placed in a large room watching a video. The money is collected and the patients are prepped for surgery. I miscarried one pregnancy following the procedure and had difficulties with my only child before I was forced to have a hystorectomy at age 27. I am aboslutely disheartened that the dr on your show tonight and the staff portray they care about women and their rights. That is absolutely NOT fact, the care they have has to do with the money that is earned by women who have little insight to this procedure. Counseling is not provided, a video is NOT counseling. I pray that very strict guidelines will be mandated to help women make the most appropriate decision in this effort as I am proof that Tiller and his staff did not allow me that opportunity at all and moved me out of the clinic before I was completely awake from anesthesia. I am sickened by the misrepresented information being relayed on Tiller's behalf.