March 18th, 2008
12:44 PM ET

White men and the Obama campaign

Today in Philadelphia, Senator Barack Obama talked a lot about race and politics WATCH, but when you look at the numbers, it may be white men who decide the fate of his campaign.


Neither Obama nor Senator Hillary Clinton have been able to secure the white man’s vote, a voting block now considered to be swing voters.

Turns out, working class white men make up nearly one quarter of the electorate, outnumbering African-American and Latino voters combined.  In 27 states where exit polls were conducted, Clinton won the white male vote 11 times, Obama won it ten times. In five states, they basically split the votes of white men.

The allegiance of these guys, generally defined as union members making less than $50,000 a year, is clearly still up for grabs and the candidates know it.

In Philadelphia, the union members I talked to for my story on tonight's 360°weren’t exactly shy about making their positions known.

Rick Czyzewski, a steel worker and member of Local 19 Sheetmetal Workers union here in Philadelphia, told me he’s voting for Clinton.

When I asked him what it will take for Obama to win the working class white man’s vote here, he said, "He’s gotta come out and talk to us and tell us what he wants to do with the economy. I don’t know if he said anything. All I hear is, change, change, what type of change does he got for us? I don’t know. Is he gonna tell us he wants more construction jobs."

Here in Pennsylvania, working class male voters make up about 27 percent of the voters. Obama won the white man’s vote in Wisconsin and Virginia, but he badly lost working class white men to Clinton in Ohio and Texas just a couple of weeks ago.  Did Race play a role? In Ohio, 27 percent of working class male voters said race did play a role in choosing Clinton.

Czyzewski said race doesn’t play a role for him, adding "I’m a union individual I’m thinking about what they can do for my union. I think the dems are split between Obama and Hillary and I think Hillary is a better union person than Obama is."

I asked roofer Bob Merk, a Clinton supporter here in Philadelphia, what he thinks about the race factor.  He told me, "I don’t think race is an issue at all... I don’t care if he’s black white or green, I would vote for him."  Merk told me Clinton has his vote unless Obama starts "standing up for the working man." He says, "I’d want to hear a guarantee of jobs, that the price of gasoline is gonna come down, I want to hear about better schools for my kids."

Some analysts have suggested Obama needs to talk more about his experience as a community organizer on Chicago’s South Side, where he worked with steelworkers and their families. Maybe even spend more time in VFW halls listening and relating to the working class voter. There’s talk within his campaign reportedly of working to show he is a bottom-up grass-roots person who has been about fighting for people who were squeezed out of jobs.

– Randi Kaye, 360° Correspondent 

Program note: Watch Randi's report tonight on 360° at 10p ET and read other blogs from the 360° team of contributors at cnn.com/360

soundoff (293 Responses)
  1. Tracy/San Diego

    Obama is in trouble (period) with American voters. His speech today demonstrated that he is less than truthful and completely the type of politician he deplores. When the controversy first erupted he was on the airwaves denying that he ever heard Wright's Anti-american and racists comments. Now, we know in private conversations with Wright he was well aware of Wright's politics and never denounced them before the video's were released. Yet, Obama remains the golden child in the media's eyes especially CNN.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  2. david

    Please lets not judge a man by the comments of an idiot racist pastor.
    Judge the man for what he stands for, beside Obama's mon is white
    how can he hate white. white or black we are all american.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  3. marla Williams, Hampton Ga

    HOW can OBAMA be called a racist he has not said anything!! his EX PASTOR said it and he is not running for President! i want to know when are the Gas prices going back down, when are the TROOPS coming home! has Bin Ladien got caught and JAILED YET?, is my family going to be able to have good HEALTH CARE... there will always be someone that HILLARY & OBAMA are friends with, close too what ever that will say what they feel {FREEDOM OF SPEECH} we cannot keep going back and fourth on silly things AMERICA has a HISTORY of being a Racist place!! the only race never affected by anything is "WHITE" ... lets just tell the truth and stick to the real issues AMERICA is not ready to talk race issue because it will open up alot of WOUNDS....

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  4. DeepBreath

    I don't know whites feel that simply discussing oppression is somehow hateful. Obama is not racist...HELLO HE WAS RAISED BY TWO WHITE WOMEN!! Everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath.
    Black people are angry about their discourse in this country. And when that is expressed whites jump all over it and call it racist and full of hate. Let's grow up people.
    Wully Bully, please think about what you are saying. It is hateful for someone to be proud to be black? For so long blacks were taught that being being black is shameful and less than human (3/4 to be exact). So thank God that it's okay to express that now. Why would white people take offense to a people having some self esteem? Blacks had to fight for that self esteem, let them have it. You and I both know that being "unashamedly black" is not racist. That's how you choose to perceive it. Would you prefer for Blacks to be ashamed of who they are? No!

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  5. Patrick

    I once thought Obama might be worth voting for. Now there is no way!! He's had a 20-year close personal friendship with a hate-filled, nut-case "pastor" and he will definitely not get my vote. There's *no way* I can vote for a politician whose "spiritual mentor" has been spewing hatred of America for the past 20 years!!! And how could Obama say he didn't notice it?!! What the hell was he thinking by associating with someone that hateful of America? For all I know, Obama secretly shares the same hatred of white America. If he's been hearing "white men are evil" for the past 20 years, maybe he believes it. As far as I'm concerned he's guilty by association and he can't talk his way out of this one.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  6. Sara

    He talks of tax credits for working families who are struggling to pay for college. He talks of expanding jobs and giving tax breaks to companies that keep jobs in America. But all these "supposed" working class white people are hung up on one thing. Race, race, race, race, race, race, race , race. If you choose to selectively pay attention to one thing (that includes the media), it's not the candidate's fault.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  7. Scott

    We need more than Candidate Obama...

    We need President Obama!

    disclaimer: from another one of the millions of white men strongly for Obama.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  8. Kelly

    Hillary will promise jobs, but she won't deliver.
    Just ask any of the people in Western NY who voted for her in 2000. She promised us 200,000 jobs- and we lost 100,000.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm |
  9. Willie Robinson

    Wully Bully,

    Whether or not you vote for hate or a racist is not up to you, because the true cards of most players are kept close to the vest. People and thier camps do and say things to connect with voters but how they personally feel about issues isn't necessarily reflected in these public opinions and beliefs.

    Question: If your church did display a sign "unashamedly white", would you stop attending services at the risk of being labeled or miscategorized by others' interpretation or misinterpretation of the sign?

    Clearly you do not understand the meaning or gravity of the sign and I wouldn't expect you to. To you, "black power", "black unity day" and so on, are all racist. It is one thing to exhibit pride in any nationality without preaching hate or intolerance of others.


    March 18, 2008 at 2:22 pm |
  10. Brian from Ohio

    His baseless charisma and inpration does not appeal to working class individuals who want a tough, tested fighter we can count on to deliver for us and the Country! It's bread and butter we're worried about and we can't take a risk! We are in such a mess that we cannot afford one more dissapointment or screw up on the economy or foreign policy. Some people may not "like" Hillary, but they know she's got the policies aced and can deliver in office. We'll be in good hands. And finally, Obama's finance adviser's backroom meeting with the Canadians re: NAFTA? That is truly unforgiveable. I want her answering the phone.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:22 pm |
  11. Joe, Chicago

    Obama has proposed to lower taxes for people making less than $75,000 a year. He wants to eliminate any taxes for seniors living on Social Security.

    Please do some research, go to his website if you want to learn more about him. The media has been complacent in not doing more to cover how EVERY candidate stands on all the issues– they are more interested in "he-sad/she-said" and the negative attack of the day.

    Obama is the only candidate who did not grow up rich.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:22 pm |
  12. nancy

    If I personally were attending a church where the minister spoke the way Mr Obama' s minister spoke, I would be out of there in a heaartbeat. Congregational members discuss the Sunday sermons. How could he attend for 20 years and not know the kind of messages that were being preached? This is inexcusible. What kind of message does this send to his own children? What happened to love thy neighbor?

    March 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm |
  13. Eddie In Florida

    Obama has never been about the common man,he is about the more privledged and if you read thru his philosophies and proposals for his admin, there is little that specifies workng class people in his definition of change. He has lost his roots from Chicago and the words change is just a catch phrase or a cutesy election banner.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm |
  14. Alice

    "I will never vote for a racist for President." Wully Bully writes. That is laughable as I guess it's alright for all the the white dudes who have been racist presidents but not ok for a black guy! Why is everybody equating what his pastor says to what Obama feels? Talk about double standards! Remember all the venom the right wing nutty religious crap that was said about Clinton while kissing up to the entire Republican party? Remember Falwell, Robertson and their ilk spewing hatred? Hell they are still doing it now. Be honest at least. You were never going to vote for a black man and now you've found your excuse in the guise of Obama's pastor. I really thought the country was ready to move beyond race but I guess not.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm |
  15. Kim

    Obama as President WILL change America for the better and also change how we are perceived globally. I am not racist but have many, many family members who are. I would not denounce them anymore than Barack should denounce a man who has been like a surrogate father to him. Additionally, I often hear things from my pastor at church that I do not agree with, but I keep going. Don't judge Obama because we all live in glass houses.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm |
  16. Win James

    If Barack Obama were exactly as he is in substance, words and action, except he were white, the race would have been over about a month ago. And all the white men that are saying they have a problem with Obama now would have voted for him without reservation.

    Geraldine Ferraro is just a lonely old half white lady.

    When you guys start fighting the Chinese do not come looking for me.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm |
  17. chnage 1

    Its just a shame race still plays a role in the this country. This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. JUDGE PEOPLE BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER. Here we go again, another way to bring him down. I hope to see an African American President someday. Looks to me this country is still not ready, so when a black man is running now, every angle is trying to draw him to something, religion, statements that do not belong to him. What a shame!

    March 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm |
  18. Concerned

    It would not matter to me if any person of color is elected president. That is not the issue. The concern, which Mr. Obama has still not addressed, is where he is aligned insofar as his church's position on race is concerned. It is hard to believe that after spending 20 years in that church, his personal beliefs do not somewhat parallel what we have heard or what is written in the mission statement of that church. I would be equally concerned if a white or any other candidate of any other color attended a church that espoused the degree of racism and egocentrism shown by Mr. Obama's church. So far, Mr. Obama has not put any meat to his words of "Change" and has not calmed my fears that his White House be not be anything other than a mirror of the beliefs of his church. Until he does, I will vote for either Mrs. Clinton or Mr. McCain.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:21 pm |
  19. George

    I am a white male that makes under $50K, and I can tell you that Obama represents exactly what I want in a President. I am tired of sneaky tactics and divisive politics. I'm fed up with the "kitchen sink" approach that Hillary and Bill are using. I was a big supporter of both Clintons until I finally saw them for who they truly are. Hillary is in it for a power grab and will stop at nothing to win. She has shown that she is willing to destroy the party, and Obama's chances in November, in an effort to win the nomination. In this regard, she shows concern for herself instead of the working class that she says she represents. Obama is not perfect, but I believe that he is honest, and I believe that he truly wants to end the destruction evidenced by the Clinton approach.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm |
  20. fletch

    How much does hillary have in common with working class Americans? Nothing! She is gaining votes off of name recognition and the booming economy while her husband was president. I think that Obama has more of a grass roots upbringing and has background of working with and organizing for workers in Chicago. He should be able to connect easier than Clinton who has led a very privledged life and has never worked on behalf of ordinary working class Americans. In fact, she even represented corporate interests by working for WalMart of all companies. Give me a break!

    March 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm |
  21. Carolinablu

    How does Hillary Clinton feel about competing for a voting block in which the very best she can do is 15%? The black vote has always been prejudiced for whichever candidate could produce the most programs. I guess now they all feel Barack Obama can produce the goods.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm |
  22. Sean Chong

    While Pastor Wright and Sen. Obama highlighted the difficulties of Americans swallowing hard words by them, I think Blacks, particularly Sen. Obama have to realize that he's not running for President to improve the black-white-latino-asian gaps. That is the job of Civil Rights activists. The Blacks also need to realize the more help a minority is given, the worst economically they will become, even though this is an politically-insensitive statement. We rarely give privilegde to Blacks in major sports and music, like Basketball etc... and look how well Blacks did! But we want to ensure the rights of minority in other areas... just see how well the Blacks did? Obama should understand this very well, that his Kenyan father doesn't get much special treatment and Obama doesn't, and see how well they do?

    The racial divide is there, not because of Whites alone, the Blacks should also bare some responsibilities. And please, Obama, you're running for President for a United States of America, nto a Black States of America... if you are running for a position for Civil Rights activist... I'd have given you my strongest of vote. Most people want to see not an Al-Sharpton in this race but many are disappointed by you recently.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm |
  23. jack

    I voted for Obama twice in Texas, the Primary and then the Caucas. I made a HUGE mistake. If Hillary Clinton does not find a way back into this I will be voting for McCain in November.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm |
  24. daniel

    Also, Obama has time to go county to county and talk to voters one night at a time. I think he should do so and hit Pennsylvania like a candidate running for state senate.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm |
  25. Steve

    If Barack Obama does not understand the needs of the working class then who does? Hillary Clinton? John McCain? Give me a break!

    March 18, 2008 at 2:19 pm |
  26. Jimmy Dean

    Obviiously these people wasn't listening to Sen OBama speech this morning. This is the reason we have racism today. Here you go condeming a person for what someone else beliefs. Why no talk about the two White preachers that are talking racist talk that are associated with John McCain. Her we go again double standards.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:19 pm |
  27. daniel

    To call Obama a racist is silly, as is Hillary's current campaign. By the numbers, she has lost and by the rules Florida and Michigan will not count. The whole fiasco is a ratings driven media built feud bought into by the Clinton campaign. The only way she could win is by some coup, which would destroy the democratic party. Obama is smart and his use of rhetoric as compared to Clinton is minimal. Sure, he talks of hope, but he is what our country needs domestically and internationally. Our stock market functions on hope. Obama has been clear and consistent in his message and he doesn't change his story just to make it sound better to the voters ... Clinton does time and time again. There is a reason why educated white men favor Obama, it's because they see these things as I do. If you are intelligent, join us, and welcome Obama as the outstanding INDIVIDUAL he is.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:18 pm |
  28. Mark

    The people that think Obama is a racist, based on his church, are just ignorant, and the exact demographic that political parties like to target with negative messages. I'm a white, educated, male, and plan on voting for Obama. I've done enough research to know where both Obama and Clinton stand, and feel that Obama is right for the US now.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:18 pm |
  29. M. Scotty

    Please recall that Obama was not always wealthy, but instead grew up in a working poor environment and has actually experienced many of the pains felt by American working class families. On the other hand, Ms. Clinton has been wealthy her all life and has never really struggled for the basics of life. I do not understand why so many union members support her?

    March 18, 2008 at 2:18 pm |
  30. John

    I believe that the stubborn nature of this group is the reason why we've had bad leadership over the past 8 yrs, and why it's a real possibility that their stubborness may screw this country for another 4 yrs.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:18 pm |
  31. Dave

    I listened to his speech and he was very straightforward and honest. All of have associated with people that hold views with which we might not agree, and we have not just 'walked away' from them. Obama made a good case for his situation. I personally am still undecided in this election. But, in reading this article and other responses, if the deciding factor on whether someone gets your vote is how "Pro-Union" he is, or whether his policies will directly benefit you at the possible expense of others, then this nation has already lost its bearings. The question we need to solve now is what do we do today to make sure our children will have better lives. I expect corporations and lobbyists to be short-sighted, looking only at the immediate payoff, but I certainly hope the electorate takes a longer view or else our children will paying for our short-sightedness.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:18 pm |
  32. Carol McFarlane

    What a pity folk feel the way you do – minorities are saying things like 'unashamedly ...whatever' because for hundreds of years they were made to feel ashamed – I'm not black but I am a minority – I know what it is like to come from a mixed race and always feel or be made to feel less than someone who is apparently white (I say 'apparently' because it's hard to prove sometimes, who is really 'white' and who isn't, looks are deceiving as are genes!).

    As for Obama not being able to understand the needs of the working class, come on! He came from that class, as did his wife, very recently! He just had the opportunity to go to college, made good, went to Harvard deliberately to strengthen his ability to access the platform from which he could deliver the change he felt the country needed!

    Folks, READ HIS BOOK – then comment again. Don't just read headlines and a snippet here and there. That's very misleading.

    READ HIS BOOK – both his books, if you have the time. But especially his autobiography, Dreams From My Father. He is very frank, open and courageous in it, telling all, baring and sharing his soul. Very few do that – it's moving and inspiring in every way.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:17 pm |
  33. shamekia

    I really don't understand this country. When will we ever get it? I thought that the presidency is about the issues and not the race. It was never about race until Obama entered. And just to think, I as a black woman try to instill hope for this country in my children and I hear racist, sexist comments on the idiot box, newspapers, and different blog sites such as Perez Hilton. What has this world come to? Obama has a white mother and a black father for crying out loud, why would people go on record to say that he is racist? Does that make any sense? People should begin to think about the things that they say before they open their mouths. Racist propaganda. It makes me sick.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:17 pm |
  34. Will in Seattle

    I thought Obama spoke to me, a white middle-aged middle-class person who grew up hunting pheasants at 7 near Pottstown, PA. Until I went in the Army at 22, I worked in construction, electrical work, and as a steelworker (Local 480 USWA).

    I'm sure the Clintonites and the McCain/Bush 08 people will use this to smear him, but America doesn't want to live in the 20th Century with Fear and Paranoia any more. We've moved on.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:17 pm |
  35. Jcarp

    I was also in favor of Obama until I heard his pastor. You can’t tell me that he looks to this man for religious guidance but doesn’t share the same racial sentiments.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:17 pm |
  36. Gabe McDonald

    We can all agree that the country is in a bad place and there has to be CHANGE. I agree that Obama might not be experienced or that he hasn't proven what he preaches. However, to create a true CHANGE we need someone different in the White House. Different right now means a little inexperienced, but extremely intelligent. Look at Bush, his second term (The most experience one can have as a president), was a joke. The status quo has landed us in a recession, in a war we shouldn't be in, and the lost respect of foreign lands. I don't see how a little inexperience is going to make the situation much worse.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:16 pm |
  37. Tony

    I suddenly feel like Obama is completely over. He originally seemed like an agent of change but now between the Rezko scandal (where he bought land...how typical is that!) to the Church scandal (he was clearly lieing about not knowing what his minister was all about AND had kept the minister on the campaign until he got found out) to his terrible judgment on his advisers (the one who called Hillary a monster and blew it on iraq and the nafta one) it is clear to me that obama would be crushed by jmccain. I am a hillary supporter but think it is almost certain mccain will win–he really is a positive change from bush.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:16 pm |
  38. Win James

    What we have here are venerable white racist to the core using anything they can use to rationalize not voting for Obama. Only sissy men, whether they are white, black, whitetino or blacktino, will vote for Hillary Clinton.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:16 pm |
  39. Jen

    If you look on his website he has issues and pick an issue and has alot of details on what his plans are. If you have questions you can always ask. He also gives people "THE PEOPLE" the opportunity to submit ideas and he will consider them!

    The USA is ours. We have to move to take it. We have to contribute and he has been the FIRST to give us that chance to be a part of it like we should be.

    I am white and he has my vote! I believe he has been very forward and motivating. Hillary has alot of scandals and bad history and failed attempts to do any good. Time for a "CHANGE"

    March 18, 2008 at 2:15 pm |
  40. Leslie

    Race is NOT the issue but we all know in America racisim is ALIVE AND HIGHLY PRACTICED. African Americans say what they really think white people have been doing that for years in the free press and the media. It wasn't racist what he said it was FACT, and until you been a person of color in America you will NEVER understand the true problems.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:15 pm |
  41. Ernesto

    I think that the real issue is weather America (specifically African American) would be able to forgive a white public figure for using racial remarks in public even if life experiences drove him or her to feel resentment tour's African Americans or if a white politician would be forgiven for condemning the message "but justifying and glorifying the messenger . Recent history tell us that this would not be the case and that African American would demand an apology and would want that person to disappear from the public just like it has happened to many white public figures. I think that one wrong does not justify another wrong regardless of your race.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:14 pm |
  42. Dick Marti

    Barack Obama needs to repudiate in no uncertain terms not only the racist comments of his pastor, but also the same kind of talk coming from many black clergy as well as from charlatans such as Louis Farrakhan. Once Obama can show that he can do that, and be consistent about it, he has a good chance of winning the white male vote and defeating McCain. He should also think about joining a mainstream church that does not feed on its own self-pity.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:14 pm |
  43. Mark

    I believe we've had the finest example today of what Mr. Obama, and more important, the nation, is capable of.

    He wants to transcend the "race debate" and have all Americans united to form a (more) "perfect union," which, my fellow citizens, is what this whole ball of wax is all about. Not division, not attending to the words of surrogates, not the old vision of past years and worn-out Washington bureaucrats.

    As a working diplomat, I've seen the steady decline in our reputation and standing overseas, and now domestically, as credible financial institutions, mortgage brokers, and working class Americans fail.

    We need to restore America to its greatness, and it will be done with pro-active, multi-partisan, community and family activism - just the message and mindset of Mr. Obama the candidate. He deserves our support, our prayers, and our vote to make America strong and respected once again.

    Excellent speech: now let"s have all major media markets broadcast it openly and often. Unite as a nation to set a new course.

    March 18, 2008 at 2:14 pm |
  44. Joy McNamara

    BHO has said he was not on the ballot in Florida. True or false. Did Obama do some advertising in Florida even though delegates weren't suppose to count,. Please answer these questions.


    March 18, 2008 at 2:05 pm |
  45. Lana

    Why is everyone dancing around the fact that Obama lied on AC360 Friday night? he said he never heard those remarks by his Pastor and that he never knew that he ever made remarks like that until he began to run for President.
    He Lied! He is no different from any other politician. He talks out of both sides of his mouth! One side denounces the Pastor and the other side says he will not cut him off because he understands what he is talking about!
    How can you support what someone says but denounce him for saying it!
    We've been hoodwinked, bamboozled and deceived!

    March 18, 2008 at 2:02 pm |
  46. Illinois

    Obama's going to have some difficulty with connecting to working class voters because he aligns more closely with higher income very liberal voters. Those are two completely different classes of individuals. If Obama is successful in making inroads with this class of individuals, it's only because he's been able to find the right words and not because he actually understands the needs and beliefs of the working class.

    March 18, 2008 at 1:12 pm |
  47. Wully Bully

    I was in favor of Obama until I heard his pastor.
    I will never vote for a racist for President. Obama and all his church are nothing but racist.
    If my church put out a sign which read "unashamedly White" would that seem racist to anyone?
    I won't vote for hate.
    The END

    March 18, 2008 at 1:11 pm |
  48. xtina

    Isn't the most important qualification experience? What has Obama done as a Sen. that shows he practiced the governmental "change" that he preaches?

    March 18, 2008 at 1:10 pm |
  49. claudia

    As a member of SEIU local 399. I believe Obama has to make his position clear for the working families. Is he going to raise taxes on the working families making more than 50,000./year? Talk is cheap.
    His talk verses his walk. That is where the rubber meets the road. He is an eloquent speaker, full of words. But when you examine his words and his actions, there is a gap.

    March 18, 2008 at 1:04 pm |
  50. Cindy

    I thought it was the Latino voters that were the swing voters so the media was making it out to be. So why the big change to it being the white male? Can you all not make up your minds or what?

    I do have to agree with the men in your article. Obama does need to show more of what he'd do for the working class than he has. But I don't think that is just for the white male votes I think that is for all working class people regardless of race or gender.

    Cynthia, Covington, Ga.

    March 18, 2008 at 1:00 pm |
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