Comments on: 'How do we reconcile this?'

By: GF, Los Angeles

GF, Los Angeles — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:33:36 +0000

@ Puggles I personally can't tell if a person is a Jew unless they tell me. I don't see any difference physically between a Jew and someone who is white vs. seeing an Asian, etc.

I agree with Mike, if the guard was white he would've been shot anyway for being a traitor to his race.

By: Tim Gibson

Tim Gibson — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:29:50 +0000

The dark corners of hate and hate speech are often not so dark, one case in point which evolved most recently is Obama's defense of DOMA. Take the time to read the brief there, it is the most vile form of political hate speech I have ever read. Using all the hate speech of all the groups who have fought to deny equal civil rights to all people and on a legal level within our court system as endorsed by our elected leader. What does that say about our nation and how does it make our elected leaders and their parties any different from other nations in that respect, or even different from any other hate group.

For the first time in my life, I am ashamed to be an American.

By: Lampe

Lampe — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:01:10 +0000

Mari: I have read a few of your comments, and it seems to me from what you say, you have a deep seated hatred, for anyone who doesn't believe like you. That is what makes this Country of ours so GREATis that different people are allowed to have different beliefs. You keepmaking remarks, like it is only the Conservatives that make nasty-hate-filled remarks. Well is this the very first time you have paid attention to politics? Because Dems and Repubs have been doing this for years and years. It happened when Carter was in Office, it happened when Bush 41 was in office, and it happened when Clinton was in offfice, and Lord knows it happened with GWB. So why then should Obama be treated any different. would I like this all to STOP? Yes ! But, untill everyone and that includes all of us stop ourselves, how can we ever hope to STOP anyone else?

By: Mike in NYC

Mike in NYC — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:08:41 +0000

@Puggles:

If the security guard had been White, Von Brunn would certainly have killed him. He would have regarded him as a traitor to his race.

White Nationalists may not care for non-Whites, but they hold White Republicans and self-described "conservatives" in the deepest contempt.

BTW, google "African American museum". There are plenty.

By: JC- Los Angeles

JC- Los Angeles — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:50:35 +0000

While the tragic murder at the Holocaust museum was another painful example of criminal activity and demented citizens, the time has come for our nation to put an end to hatred before crimes occur.

It's stunning to see the mainstream media give Reverend Wright a free pass when he continually dispenses hatred towards Jews and America.

If he's an anti-semite and a murder has recently taken place at the Holocaust museum, shouldn't said statements be of immediate concern?

How a President of the United States tolerated a bigot for twenty years is anyones guess.

By: GF, Los Angeles

GF, Los Angeles — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:12:00 +0000

Let's admit it, we all harbor some sort of hate against people whether it be another race or our own. The only difference is the degree of hate and how it's shown.

Since the influx of illegal Latinos in LA and seeing the effects it's had – signs at major chain pharmacy's in Spanish, billboard ads in Spanish, gym equipment in a major chain with instructions in Spanish, gym teachers instructing in Spanish, job ads requesting the person be able to speak Spanish – all it has done is create resentment in me. I feel like I'm living in Mexico and not America. I understand how white people feel like they're being pushed out (I'm not white) when they see and experience these things like I do. These hate groups are the extremes of this frustration and they have every right to voice their opinion no matter how hateful it is. I don't agree with it but we are in America.

By: Nick B

Nick B — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:45:08 +0000

I don't think that she was suggesting the prohibition of Holocaust denial, but she does have a point. Ideas are the seeds of all actions, and since we are allowed to have any ideas we want in this country, many people are misled with terrible consequences.
If you want to talk about something idiotic, let's talk about Holocaust denial. Modifying history to make mass killing seem less ethnocentric? Are we really to believe that Holocaust deniers are organized and passionate just because they are trying to set the record straight? They are modifying ideas to foster actions toward a political end. The actions are often violent, and since the ideas don't seem to have much use otherwise, there is no real reason to allow them other than our founding principles. I understand and support our right to believe whatever we want, but if these beliefs are being used largely to cause violence, then we need to evaluate how important they are.

By: DEE

DEE — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:43:38 +0000

How many people jumped to the conclusion that the OK City bombing was the work of Islamic Extremist. How stupid did you feel when you found out it was an American who did the terrible act. Homegrown extremist are no different from international ones. They lay in wait to hurt innocent civilians no matter wht their race or religion correct? So why don't we shut them down and ship em to Gitmo where they belong. Waterboarding anyone? We need to find out what they are planning, correct? Someone please explain the difference in domestic terrorist and foreign ones. And which one is worst?

By: Charlie Douglas Euless, Texas

Charlie Douglas Euless, Texas — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:40:13 +0000

How totally sad about this guy and how sad must it be for his relatives. At 88 years of age, you should be enjoying your family, your grandchildren, and mabye a nice game of bingo, or a nice vacation, or just surfing the net looking for blogs to write to.
And just how did this person get the rifle? Who sold him the rifle?
If he did not steal it and actually bought it, then did the gun shop do a background check before selling him a weapon? Who sold him the ammunition for the rifle? Criminal background checks should be done on anyone buying weapons or ammunition.
And tell me again why we don't need stricter gun control laws?

By: Joyce Kimber

Joyce Kimber — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:17:54 +0000

It is very sad that we have to experience violent actions like the one at the Washington Holocaust Museum. The answer to such violent actions is to turn back to God and acknowledge His guidance to help us through whatever problem we are faced with today.

God wants us to love one anothe and stop destroying one another with words and vicious actions promoted by race hate or any other type of malicious actions, which are devices of Satan.

God wants us to demonstrate brotherly lovebecause we are all descendents from his created family. He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth to seek Him. We are all 'One Nation Under God' and share a brothrly relationship.

If we exalt ourselves and think more highly of self than we ought, He abase. It is He who exalts and abase (make low) and He who renderd to every man according to his deed.

By: Mari

Mari — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:05:16 +0000

@ Michael Ozaki MD.......... AMEN! I agree 100% with you. Even though I will get mean reactions to my blog comments, its okay, because I will not stand quietly by while the hate rhetoric of the far-right continues to spread hate, lies, fear and division in our Nation!

The Faux News "entertainers" need to take responsibility for their inciting hate and fear among our citizens!

I heard today that Glenn Beck had to retract a LIE he said on his 'show'; the LIE was that "the Federal government were building concentration camps"! ANOTHER far-right LIE! He did retract this vile statement, but how many people ......... believed him, any way?!

By: Tammy, Berwick, LA

Tammy, Berwick, LA — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:25:16 +0000

Here's an idea. If you want to really look at hate crime in America, look at murder rates in places like New Orleans. Look at black on black crime. Or white on white. Or purple on purple. Or gang on gang. Whatever. Lives are lost every day in this country due to hate of some sort. Look at the response after Hurricane Katrina. It brought to the forefront hate and race and poverty issues the city of New Orleans and state tried to hide for centuries. One racist killing one guard matters. But it isn't any more indicative of hate in our country than the fact that low income families still can't get a break to build a house or rent in a decent neighborhood years after a storm. Spend less time worrying about the skinheads and bad maps and more time worrying about the real issues that face normal Americans every day. When you reconcile the daily issues of hate and race and that becomes unacceptable, the rest of it probably will be less appealing to these losers looking for attention and something to occupy their brain matter.

By: puggles

puggles — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:23:48 +0000

Mike in NYC – I think you are wrong. If a white officer had been at the door and opened it for him, I rather think von Brunn would not have shot him point blank in the chest. Recall that von Brunn was railing about Blacks and Jews. It's just that there isnt a museum heralding the the African American experience or contributions to the US.

One of the fundamental inalienable rights our country recognizes is free will. This means that people are allowed to make bad choices – as long as those choices do not infringe upon others' rights. This man was within his rights to rant and rave. It is when he picked up a loaded gun and sought to act upon those thoughts that he clearly infringed upon others' rights.

This gets to be an interesting concern as we know that sometimes words can hurt more than sticks and stones. And when and how do we determine that those words cause more damage?

There can be no such thing as a "Thought Police," but can there be an "Expression Police"?

Clearly, we need more mental health services and training – on all levels.

By: Susan

Susan — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:14:27 +0000

The First Amendment is important to me. I am proud to live ina country where my speech and my pen are free. I believe this freedom is sometimes used as a weapon & shield. I also believes this is a right that comes with responsibility.

At one point I used to watch both CNN and Fox News. The latter became too judgemental. Facts were twisted and the commentators spewed them as they ranted & raved. Two emotions happen. (1) you fall for everything, wanting to recruit your friends or (2) you are screaming at the TV because the truth is not being told. I fell into the latter.

Dr. Tiller, his office, and employees were slandered for several years. No one had to agree with the doctor or use his services, but he was not breaking the law. The rants, raves, and nickname took the First Amendment too far. Those who use the internet to publish home addresses are also going too far. Now Dr. Tiller is dead, his family is broken, women have one less doctor, and O'Reilly finds another cause while using his First Amendment rights to protect his speech. Chances are Dr. Tiller would be alive had Bill O'Reilly only reported a time or two. He used his right to incite and deserves to lose it. Imus lost his job for a one time tacky comment.

I know this to be truth..the majority of Fox News commentators and Rush Limbaugh spread lies and hate. We have dead policemen, a doctor, a soldier, and now a security guard. The people who commit these crimes are your typical Fox/Limbaugh listener. President Obama has been attack by these folks every day. In the eyes of these people he can do nothing right & they are pleased as punch to pass it on. Will our president be next? Their lies are dangerous.

If those who had done the killing had been of another race/religon the field day would be theirs. DHS warns us & they use their microphones to make fun and once again tear down the Obama administration. Who looks foolish now?

America will fall if we do not stand together. If all the energy used against Dr. Tiller and President Obama were used correctly, imagine what all we could accomplish? Too much hate for 150 days!!

A brave person will step up one day and the law will have an admendment added. No one will be allowed to incite for the purpose of hate or danger. It's a slippery slope, but it can be won.

Springfield, Missouri

By: Kathy

Kathy — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:53:56 +0000

I think this guy – and the idiots in the "white supremecy" groups – are pathetic. However, I have never believed in the concept of a "hate" crime. Most murders result from "hate" of some sort [I hate my wife, I hate my boss, I hate Americans, I hate, I hate. . . ]. It is the act – not the emotion – that is the crime. We have always considered "method/motive" in determining the level of punishment [premeditated, act of passion, lying in wait, witness tampering, etc.] for enhancement purposes. However, I don't believe you can write good law – Constitutional law – judging someone based on their beliefs that may have motivated the crime. It is very PC – but not Constitutionally acceptable. This guy is a pig and killed people on purpose. In California, it is the death penalty – we shouldn't care what his reasons are "inside his head." That is and has always been a pedantic exercise that does nothing to deter, prevent or obtain justice for crimes.

By: Michelle in AZ

Michelle in AZ — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:47:51 +0000

We monitor and arrest those people who are considered possible terrorist, sometimes before a crime has been committed. How are these people not considered terrorist? How many more people have to die before we realize the destruction this type of hate brings to the world?

By: John

John — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:45:42 +0000

Any belief rooted in an ideology of violence that is intended to intimidate or cause fear is terrorism. We are worried about international terror when we have plenty at home to deal with.

Platform is one issue. The suspect in this case shouldn't be allowed to voice his idiotic view to TV crews. Remove his platform and you start to perhaps contain the problem.

While you can't stop people from believing what they believe we can, as the majority make an effort to shout down these fringe elements with our collective voice. We have free speech. We need to be louder.

By: Ai van

Ai van — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:48:33 +0000

When the churches stop preaching that the Jews killed Jesus, when all denominations of Christianity write a new bible that does not teach their followers that their way is the only way and all those who are different from them are damned we can start to live in peace and love.

By: CMD

CMD — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:39:56 +0000

I find it ironic that we are so focused on "not forgetting the hate groups when they're not killing," but we are no longer allowed to call terrorists – TERRORISTS.
ALL of this type of activity – from schoolyard bullying to hate groups to acts like 9/11 – is terrorism. ANd yes, it starts with a word, a step, an act – and it starts in childhood.
One idea is to bring in psychologists and behavior specialists for a roundtable think tank on how to change the direction and energy of these organized hate groups.
Hate at its core is fear.
Why are we so focused on teaching our young children about sex in our schools, but not focusing on general behavior modification and redirection?

CMD

By: Becky

Becky — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:39:25 +0000

This may seem like a synical comment, but this type of behavior is not going to stop, it will go on and perhaps get worse and we cannot do anymore about it than we have done. Although, how did this nut get to where he got with that weapon in this building? This is what is so frustrating. We are all aware in this country of the dangers of this sort of tragic thing occuring, but yet we get off guard and forget and someone sneaks under the wire and boom. We have to stay aware, constantly. These type of people are anxious, psychotic people. They are always scheming and restless. Always up to something and preying. We have to stay on our toes, even in everyday life. I live alone, and I have learned, this is the way the world has become. Cut and dry. Enjoy your life, it's a beautiful world, but watch your back, every minute, every day, every waking hour. Awful way to have to think, but that's what it has become. Stay safe.