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this is a very black mark on what the united states of america has stood for. it was wrong. it will stay wrong. no matter what. docs have already been made on this stain.
if the torture saved american lives GOOD,
@ David Gergen, I agree with you very insightful. I think the people carrying out these acts were acting on orders plus the fact they were thinking about the terrorist attack on 911& they were told this wasn't torture by Pres. Bush.
How can American interrogation tactics be any worse than the other side's interrogation tactics that were used against Daniel Pearl?
Wonder if our founding fathers used torture in their policies. That would be a nice topic to write on for a book.
Torture tactices in the USA, who knew?
I am with you Erica. I always like a smart intelligent
discussion without the yelling and name-calling.
That is why 360 is my favorite news program.
evening everyone.. good discussion about a difficult subject.
@ David Gergen, I agree with you very insightful. I think the people carrying out these acts were acting on orders plus the fact they were thinking about the terrorist attack on 911& they were told this wasn't torture by the Pres. Bush.
Those Memos reveal disgraceful inhumane torture tactics. But I Agree with David Gergen, our mentality as a nation was different then, we were concerned with our lives and the lives of our children. So if torture was necessary to protect the lives of our people then it was morally acceptable. I don't believe that terrorist are human beings so they dont deserve humane treatment. There is nothing rationally human about murdering 3000 Americans.
Torture only seems to feed thee sadistic side of human beings, it has no purpose beyond that other than to debase and humiliate...it's not like the movies and TV shows where everything is solved in a snappy amount of time.
I COMPLETELY agree with Jeffrey Tubin. I don't care whether we got valuable information from torturing human beings. It's horrible that the United States government ever endorsed this practice and I want it to be forever banned from being done in my name and the name of my beloved country.
I would like to see the upper-level people who signed off on permitting torture charged with war crimes.
Ms. Boyle... God Bless Her. Real Heart. And voice
Toobin got it right
Great conversation between David Gergin and Jeff Toobin - very interesting perspectives and information. Thanks, Team 360 for giving us this segment.
Did torture ever get the govt any worthwhile info?
I think you and your guests are overreacting. The only thing you have presented that is close to torture is waterboarding and that is marginal. Ask John McCain what was done to him, that is torture. It is reasonable for the government to evaluate the legal ramifications of what they will do, and we should not be surprised of the contents of these memos. Fighting terrorism is serious business. I would not want to put my safety in Mr. Tubin's hands.
Usually Tpo Secret documents don't get declassified and released for 50 years after they are generated, particularly when they deal with sources and means of collecting intelligence. This is a bad precedent.
Jeffrey Toobin, if these techniques prevent a terrorist from setting of a nuke in a US city killing millions, would your idea of morality accept that?
The torturing was wrong, but we need to move forward and let the past die. We should learn from the past and not make the same mistakes moving forward. I would love to see Dick Cheney give an interview on the torturing that took place under his watch.
@erica, haha, i understood what David Gergen meant, it depends on the person you are accusing and their interpretation of the subject.
if Bush didnt think it was lying, then its hard to call him a liar because our interpretation of torture is different. even if it is the majoriy that sees it as torture.
Any q's for JT and DG?
anderson i cant believe everyone is upset about what is going on in iraq my brother was shot in iraq and not once did anyone say hey thats torture and what about the soldiers that are tortured by the iraqies where are their rights. This is a war and they have no hard feelings about 911 or killing hundreds of our soldiers. We need to remember we are at WAR. Where are our soldiers rights!!!
If it wasn't "lying", it was a true case of psychological "Denial".
Of course Bush and Cheney knew this was "torture"! They completely disregarded ALL information to the fact that tortue doesn't work!
Evening Everyone. and great dialogue gentlemen.
Gergen just stated that "you can't hold subordinates accountable if their superiors said something was legal." HUH!!! Sooooo, in other words, Nazi guards at concentration camps shouldn't be held responsible for atrocities because their superiors said it was OK, right? Gergen is usually reasonable....but not tonight!
Personally, I think everyone in the Bush administration and Congress were guilty in this situation, or, at best, hiding their heads in the sand. But don't we have enough going on in this country without dwelling on the past? I don't think Obama will ever let this happen again. Mr. Gergen, I agree with you completely.
Let's not forget the thousands of innocent people killed in New York
by those who were (not) tortured.
I agree Mr. Gergen , please move on No witch hunts. . This is impeachment all over agin. The country will be torn apart. Dick Cheney's word is not worth spit so I don't care if he says torture worked.
I was already following, Erica. :)
Jeffrey Toobin is correct that this ultimately shouldn't matter, but: there have been plenty of studies done that show that torture does not work. They'll say anything to get it to stop–and wouldn't you?
We may never know how many attacks were prevented because of torture but we will also never know how much false information we got because of torture, and it was probably a lot.
With, possibly, the exception of waterboarding, I didn't see anything that would constitute torture, in my mind. Shouldn't the headline on the screen be "CIA Interrogation Techniques Revealed", not "Torture Techniques"? Who decides what is, and isn't torture? Forcing someone to stand up? Come on, that's not torture.
CIA torture tactics are cruel.We have to know more facts.If it truth its a scandal.
You know America may not have been a civilzed country back then...
Torturing is never right.. we train people for years and years to get information out of people without harming them.
There is no excuse for what happened at Guantanamo, whoever they were or whatever they were planning.
I think the lying is really most offensive. The American people have a right to know what their government is doing because that's the only check on governmental power. The administration waited and didn't want to tell anyone even when arguably it was past the point at which they needed really to keep it a secret. They did it to cover their own rear ends.
What is torture? Who determines what is torturing.
How many people really believe this was torturing?
How many of those that are critiziing have ever been threatened.
My comment is about the decision to not prosecute cia agents who were "just following orders". Why then were the soldiers of Abu Gharab prosecuted for doing the same thing? Oh, yeah, and I almost forgot to mention the female general......
This discussion is why I love my job: smart people discussing an important, loaded topic intelligently without yelling, without trying to tear others down. I am engaged, interested and most of all, I am informed thanks to AC, JT and DG.
Good evening all, this was a great move on Obama to bring this out in the open for the world to see, its part of that transparency he promised in the election, you know, that thing the Republican Party says Obama isnt doing, but now this comes out and it involves the last Administration, ( Republicans ) its Taboo, go figure, Pres is doing great in my opinion, especially working on foreign relations.........
I think POTUS opened a can of worms when he revealed top secret documents..I'm glad they did, but its just gonna linger for a long time.
I think that if I had lost a loved one during 911, I would have wanted to torture them myself. I know, this is from someone who takes the mice away from the cats and lets them go.
Its obvious that they were torturing because of those pictures that were released a few years ago that were taken by members of the military that were working in Guantanamo, having prisoners posing naked with bags over their heads and in weird positions. It was plainly obvious that it was going on
I agree with David, too.
Hi! Welcome back.
I think the torture documents reveal the terrible reality surrounding the threat of terrorism. Pres. Obama seems to have the right approach by moving forward rather than trying to re-determine what should have been done in the past.
I understand that torturing isnt right! so how do you guys suggest getting info out of someone who has no respect 4 life? and considers it an honor 2 strap bombs 2 themselves!
lol yea, When AC asked if the president had lied, DG's face was priceless!
I love David Gergen! He's brilliant!
It is outrageous that these torture actions have been committed by our country when we are supposedly trying to spread the rights of individuals around the world!
Yes we need to move past this era, but we also need to hold those individuals who made the decision to commit these acts accountable. It is the only way to maintain our credibility as a democratic and free society promoting freedom internationally.
The contest is hot! And win-win!
I'm sorry, but I think @aplusk will win!
@Erica-No need to worry about getting 1 million followers on twitter. Besides CNN is waaay better than Ashton Kutcher lol
I ALREADY ADD CNNBRK ON TWITTER AWHILE AGO :)
Looove to show SUPPORT!
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