I’m one of the few that is fine with the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Policy” and I don’t really see why there should be any difference here. Everyone should be completely free to believe in what they want, but keep it to yourself - and that should be applied across the board. Prayers endorsed/let by officers should not be allowed.

This is true story, if your american and not christian you are deemed as a terrorist. Thats just not right.

I believe military personnel have a right to exspress their faith if they so desire. I also believe that they should have the right to have no belief if that is their choice. However, we are to be reminded that this country was founded on christian principles, so to restrict observers of their faith in Jesus would be very wrong.

I do believe tha tis is within evry one’s rights tobeleieve what they want to believe.An individual has no right to iforce them to pray read the bible or practice thier religon ,in thier time to themeselves. Leave it up to the person don’t center them ou like the soliders did.

Mr. Hall should be commended for his actions, fighting the Iraqi insurgents while bunking down with fellow soldiers who despised him. This is no different from when blacks were asked to fight in world war 2 but were kept in separate hosing.

This is discrimination at its worst. He has the right to choose what religion, if any, he believes in and the military cannot mistreat him because of this decision. The military as a whole obviously does not embrace religious discrimination, but various individuals in the military who are christians may discriminate against those who have different faiths or no faith at all because they hold their beliefs so dear that they find it impossilbe to be tolerant of those who disagree. They think that if you don’t believe the same thing they do then there is something wrong with you. Its ridiculous. Just some dumb individuals who don’t understand the militaries policy of religious tolerance.

This doesn’t surprise me one bit, atheists are the least trusted and least respected people in this backward superstitious country. It’s no coincidence that every presidential candidate has to make sure the electorate believes that he or she really does believe in a God who sacrificed Himself to Himself to change laws He Himself made. This ridiculousness should have been relegated to the status of laughable nonsensical mythology hundreds of years ago.

This story is disturbing, but not surprising, given the many reports that have been published about religious bigotry and proselytizing at the Air Force Academy.

The members of the military in Iraq are sacrificing so much for their country. It saddens me to think that any of them would be harrassed by fellow soldiers. Undoubtedly stress levels are high in Iraq, but that is no excuse for intolerance. I think our military needs better training.

This is a little far from how things were for me. I was a LCpl in the Marines, and was also an athiest. I was never discriminated against, ever. I went to church twice in boot camp because i was bored. my dog tags said athiest on them. I was in several debates with people in the fleet about why i felt the way i did. This kid is obviously very weak mentally if he is so easily convinced his beliefes are wrong. Maybe the regular army is a fundamentalists christian organization, but in the Marine Infantry no such problems exist.

religious harassment, which is what is being described, is no different than sexual harassment, in terms of how offensive it is to the recipient, and should not be tolerated in the military or in civilian life; it reflects the same kind of intolerance that we abhor in fundamentalist muslims who want to destroy us because we don’t share THEIR belief in koran

I too am Christian but i have to tell you this. I have had my worst experiences with Christian people and orginazations. I find the Chirstian world to be rude and hateful. Everything opposite of what the bible teaches. The Christians seem to want to act as if they are God. If the bible is true, God will be the one to change this man’s heart. You guys (the Christian”s) are trying to take Gods place. You Christians, Hate the Sin love the sinner. Wake up!! You’re looking stupid. It shows all us other people you do not read your BIBLE. And one further note: This man is in the war to help protect your family and homeland too. You should be ashamed!

Fundamentalist christians will say they’re the ones who are ostracized, citing cases where religious proselytizing isn’t allowed by the state. But I think they are allowed far more than they should be, including prayers at meal time in the military and on the senate floor. The thin excuse is that it’s a non-denominational/every-religion prayer, but I think this soldier’s experience proves that these prayers are just another foothold for fundamentalist christianity in the argument about the separation of church and state.

While I’ve met a couple Christians who do not proselytize, they have been the rare exception. It is a part of the mentality of American Christianity to bring as many into the fold as possible, usually based on the fear of the unknown. And I have no problem accepting that the Pentagon and the military, in general, espouse and practice proselytizing. It’s very unfortunate, and is a contradiction to the very ideals which this country often claims to defend with its military.

Separation of Church and State. One of the fundamental ideals on which this nation was conceived. The military, it officers, officials, or pawns should have the right to practice any faith they so choose. Considering they are fighting for their lives, truth be told, there should be much more pressing issues in simply surviving that the troops should be concerned about. What god, if any, the soldier next to you prays to, should not be an issue, so long as the bullets he/she is firing, travel the same direction as yours. It is the responsibility of the NCO’s to squash such petty sentiments before they become a national issue, let alone a solider having his life threatened by those he calls friends or colleagues. Tell me, how “Christ-like” is this response by his commanders and fellow soldiers. When asking “What Would Jesus Do?” , somehow “Love thy neighbor” comes to mind quicker than “Bludgeon him with malice and ignorance” does.

In regards to believing the Pentagon, I have seven words for you
“There are Nuclear Weapons are in Iraq”

I didn’t hear one actual life threat in the article. If there was a real threat, whether religious in nature or not, Specialist Hall would be right in acting upon it for his own protection. But, people will undoubtedly speak critically of any number of aspects of one’s life–we don’t need to sue anyone over it. I’ve been criticized and ostracized by my family for being an active, church-going Christian. It has caused me much pain, but I don’t sue them, nor do I need to have contentious discussions over it with them. No one can get inside another’s head and make him or her pray or not pray, so there is no risk there. Get used to being an adult and get used to being diappointed when everyone doesn’t embrace your values, because, simply, everyone will not. And by the way, my take is that God had a reason for keeping Specialist Hall here after the humvee attack whether he chooses to believe it or not at this time.

Obviously, if you tell the world you are an athiest often enough, you are going to find someone who will be deeply offended. Sue the DOD and Donald Rumsfeld? Absurd. But, some legal pinhead will take this case and waste thousands of dollars in court and for what. Hall needs to stop showboating and get on with life.

Yes I believe military personal are discriminating against Mr Hall. Is it against the rules you bet, but try and stop it. This is no diferent than what’s happening to Gay’s and Lesbiens

What the heck do you expect with the “Godly” president we have. Bunch of morons.

Of course I believe this soldier, and not the Pentagon. The military says that you are free to practice your beliefs or lack there of, but we all know that right wing religious conservatives everywhere try to force their beliefs down everyone else’s throats, being that they are the majority, especially with this Bible thumping Administration.

I don’t think that anything in the above story is religious discrimination . However if he were close to me while in the war in Iraq I would want him to get away from me as far as possible. I would not eat at the same table or be in the same Humvee.
Who does he think has keep him alive in the war. I can’t blame any of the other soldiers at all for their actions because mine would have been the same.

Lee

You can not have freedom OF religion until you can have freedom FROM religion.

–KnotGullible

Randi,
Very interesting story. When I first started reading I was for sure that Mr. Hall was just in it trying to get some money. But seeing now that he doesn’t want any just to make sure people can practice any religion that they want in the military it adds more credibility to his story for me.

I think that if you are willing to risk your life to serve our country then there should be no bias what so ever in anything that anyone chooses to do be it religion, sexual preference or anything else.

The Pentagon and the military may say that everyone has their freedom to choose but in reality we know that there are a lot of discriminations going on. I hope that Jeremy can change some of that with his lawsuit.

Looking forward to seeing your report.

Cindy…Ga.

I am appalled by what I am reading about the treatment of Specialist Hall based on his personal beliefs.
It’s frightening to think that U.S. military missions may be led for the purpose of ’spreading the word’ and ‘helping the heathens see the light’. Even if it’s not a complete reality (yet), if the perception is there for other countries, then it’s real to them.
Our country was founded on many things, including freedom of religion. That included the freedom to participate in your own choice of religion or to respectfully decline to participate at all. A soldier is fighting for his life, his loved ones, his neighbors and his country which includes our civil liberties. Please do not let our US military become some sort of “God’s Army.” That is scarier than any outside terrorist threat.

People recognized as having no religious affiliations or convictions are discriminated against in my experience. Many more just pay lip service to popular religious beliefs to avoid discrimination. The Atheists and Agnostics in my boot camp platoon cleaned barracks on Sundays while everyone else attended church services.

When I was attached to my infantry unit, there were few problems within the platoon, but I had a few instances where I faced discrimination with HQ personnel. For instance, I had to make my own ID tags because the pogue refused to make a tag with the word “Atheist” on it. The overt religious displays seem to be mostly political or a photo op (”Bow your head and pray. That’s an order!”).

Does the First Amendment provide for freedom to have no religion? How can your ‘beliefs’ be discriminated against if you don’t have any?

This seems like another frivolous lawsuit.

Sounds to me like the soldier was initially “proselytized” by other atheists in the army which caused him to move away from his Christian beliefs. If that’s acceptable, then its got to work both ways. Christians are called to share their faith freely and openly with non-believers, and to deny them that right is denying them their freedom of religion which is a constitutional right.

I believe that a citizen or soldier of the United States should be able to believe or in this case NOT believe what ever they want. I am a Christian and that is my choice, we have that choice because of that freedom that our armed forces gives us…. not sure when the army thought they could decide what a person should believe whether it be a soldier or a citizen. When it comes down to it, you have to be nonjudgmental when looking at the law or issues like religion no matter what you believe to be right. This kid is only 24 years old and was a Christian at one time; this does not necessarily mean that he is now an Atheist for life. It sounds like to me that he is pretty confused right now and that could be from what he has seen on his two tours that he has given for this country. Bottom line here is that what he is sacrificing for and risking his life for is not being protected and I do not blame him one bit for suing the Government. Besides, who says that the army has any credibility anyway, remember the Pat Tillman scandal…..

I would agree that something like this may be happening, although I think the idea of Hall needing/having a bodyguard assigned to him is a bit bogus.

I don’t think what Hall is proposing is possible. What sort of freedom are the soldiers being allowed to express if they can not choose who sits at their table and can’t express they’re beliefs to other soldiers through questions and discussion about these beliefs?

The only case I see Hall having is if he was legitimately denied a promotion on the basis of religious descrimination and not some other mitigating factor.

When the president states he make his choices by his religious belief hum This is becoming the next crusade and we alll no how that ended .

In this “thological” society, there is discrimination against people who do not believe in God. And I believe the military is no exception.

A reading of the Bible and the Old and New Testament does show there are many, many discrepancies. He was correct to question that and form his own beliefs.

I believe there are probably many more in the military that share his views, but they cannot speak up for it would be detrimental to there well-being and military career.

I was an atheist in the army for 5 years and while I was never the target of death-threats, it certainly was a somewhat hostile work environment.
There weren’t threats, but warnings, many warnings that I was going to hell, lots of fire and brimstone talk. Leaders sometimes attempted to incorporate religion into missions. I recall in Kuwait, the night before our convoy was to enter Iraq, the Division Commander gave a little speech in which he commented that we were going north ‘to do God’s work’. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t talking about Allah. I also remember before a mission in country the company chaplain saying that it was our duty to spread Christianity in the country (Iraq, of course).
It is also a little tricky being forced to stand in formations while a chaplain leads a prayer. Everyone stands with their heads bowed and hands together. I usually obliged out of respect, but occassionally, when I felt the chaplain was going beyond a general prayer and began prostalitizing, I would stand at attention. That will get you alot of ugly looks for a long time.
Then of course there is basic training where every sunday you can choose to either go to church or stay behind and clean the barracks. You can go to any religious service you want mind you, but abstaining means you get to do a little extra work.
So yeah, atheists get a little bit of a bum deal in the army. But so do others: liberals, homosexuals, and intellectuals,mainly. On the good side, the army is probably the place most free of racism I have ever seen, and not in a politically correct, let’s dance around with euphamisms kind of way, but in a real, substantive fashion.
So, in the end, its a mixed bag.

The entire US government discriminates against non-Christians, why should the military be any different?

Hi Randi and AC,

Thanks for being brave enough to do this story. I just saw the advertisement on CNN and I am looking forward to watching the show tonight. I served in the Army as a closet-atheist and closet-vegetarian from 1993-1998.

It was my experience that the Army is undeniably a carnivorous, Christian organization. I was extremely careful about discussing my religious and dietary choices, because they were clearly unacceptable.

I have no doubt that this soldier experienced the death threats and lack of promotions mentioned in the trailer. I always thought, how ironic it was that we took an oath to protect religious freedom, yet my choice as an atheist, was ridiculed and rejected from the day I entered basic training until the day I left the military.

Isn’t it ironic, he has to fight from within to get what the military is supposed to be delivering to others? How dare an officer tell him to leave a table at Thanksgiving! We should all be thankful, year round, we have the right (and the obligation) to speak what we believe and don’t believe. - A message to Mr. Hall: you may not want it, but I will pray for safety and your rights. Isn’t it ironic?

that’s an isolated fact. I know guys who have been deployed to Iraq and they have never had this kind of problem. of course it has to be investigated and, if someone is found guilty, has got to be punished. but let’s not over react to the point of judging the whole army because of that.

I have met many people from the Armed Services. I don’t want to be disrespectful but many believe that “their God is the Awesome God” for them and only meant to bless those in the US Armed Services who are Christians and believe in God the way they do. I have met many from the armed Services who are almost crazed with dillusions that God wants them to fight for his needs while in the army. Like our president, GWB, who believes that God told him to go into Iraq, there are many who would follow our present president into battle thinking they were going to usher in the second coming of a Messiah like being. They actually believe they are fighting for Armagedon to begin. I dare say that as a Christian I do not believe in their ideals in “power and might are right” and do not necessarily hold the conviction that only Christians get to heaven. There are many paths to enlightenment. Christianity is not the only path. We also have from what I have seen, too many people who need more education before they go to and while in the military. It is very sad to think that this young man (Hall) giving his life for country cannot be regarded in the same manner because he is Atheist in his beliefs. We are all a part of the same family here on this earth….we are all related back to our ancestors who came out of the African continent. Surely we need to learn to respect people on a better plane than we are doing these days. Since Ronald Regan, George Bush (Sr) and this guy who is in the White House, there is a feeling by some Chistian Fundamentalists that everything has to be done according and in line with what they believe. I am sorry our present administration has been hijacked by the Christian Right! They are Christian Wrong! Christ’s message was plain, pure and simple: “Love one another as I have loved you” That was his mandatuum, his commandment. Good luck to Mr. Hall no matter what he believes. I will be pleased when Mr. Bush and the Christian Right are gone from the Political Horizon once and for all.

I am not surprised by this man’s ordeal. But one must remember, most young men in the army are not college educated. That means they have not had the opportunity to critically think about their reliance on or support of their supernatural beliefs.

Being in harms way in the military by it’s very nature is terrifying. Having a belief in the supernatural can have a calming effect like salve on a wound in such circumstances. So you can see why many in the military may fear Hall — because he represents a crack in their belief system which is helping them cope.

In the long run, while Hall is very courageous for going forward with this lawsuit, it will take many more soldiers to complain and eventually force the military to guarantee religious freedom, just like it took a long time to allow women to join.

Keep up the good fight Army Specialist Jeremy Hall!

My brother and I both currently serve in the Army. My brother has been an Atheist for many years now and has never expereinced any negative action from peers or soldiers senior to him. I am a christian soldier who is not in anyway concerned about what faith or lack of, that a soldier may have. Most soldiers would probobly agree that in peace time and in combat the only measure of a soldier is his or her ability to perform the job. The military is so socialy diverse by it’s nature that I am surprised that the issue was not addressed by his leadership. As members of the military we annually go through sexual, racial and religous exceptance training. I assume this soldier has poor leadership in his unit and some less than excepting peers. Any leader if brought to their attention would quickly address this soldiers concerns, not only because it is their duty to do so but becasue it is morally correct.

This is classic Christian/religious hypocricy. This mentality only strengthens the agnostic in us all, and pushes many to atheism, as it reveals the weak minds/wills of believers. They can’t even be in the presence of someone who does not believe in their invisible friends, because it reminds them how wrong they are, so they must lash out, like the animals they are.
They are no worse than the fundementalist Muslims that they hate.
My heart goes out to this brave soldier, who is the only hero in the bunch. The others are just dogs living out their primate pack animal chemical commands. Evolve monkeys evolve!
We should all be grateful to this true American. Jeremy Hall stand strong, you are fighting the highest war.

My husband and I see this every day in our local military. Not only is it a problem to be Atheist or a different religion from Christian… if you are an outed Liberal, tempers fly. Fundamentalist Christian Conservatives have flooded our military to the point where it is scary to think for yourself or have any beliefs that differ.

I am a Christian…by definition, a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus taught that love: is patient and kind, is not rude, does not seek it’s own way, is not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs, does not delight in evil,rejoices in the truth, always protects, trusts, hopes,perseveres and never fails.
If Jeremy Hall was denied a promotion because of his beliefs…that was wrong. If his life was threatened because of his beliefs…that was wrong. If the Military discriminates against non-Christians that is wrong. Hall is entitled to the same rights and freedoms as all Military personnel regardless of their personal beliefs.
In my opinion, only fanatics or extremists would act in such a disreputable way under the guise of Christianity.
EVERY Soldier,whether Athiest or Christian, needs to be commended for laying down his or her life for the lives of others. Yay Jeremy!

This country was not founded on Christian principles.

Our military has been moving in this very dangerous direction ever since GW Bush became president. As a Christian myself, I do not believe in pushing my beliefs upon another person or another country. There are many many religious beliefs - and our forefathers had the foresight to know that. They were pretty smart!! The only time it is bad to hold our Christian belief is when we demand others to believe like we do. Religion of any kind is personal.

For so many Americans to listen and actually believe the Rush Limbaughs and Karl Roves and to their “religious” antics is so very very sad. We have dwindled down to being just like the Crusades in the Middle Ages - and we all know how absolutely DUMB those were!!!!

God, Allah, Jehovah - please help us to respect our brothers and sisters and all living creatures on this planet!!! Imagine . . . . .

It’s amazing that we continue to push the beliefs of Christianity on others while considering many equally unprovable religions as cults or simply incorrect. We brainwash children into believing this from such a young age that they never really have an opportunity to make a decision for themselves. Yes I said it- BRAINWASH.

If I told a child from age one that a giant alien craft came down and created 10 kinds of intelligent animals who all fought it out for 1000 years before human beings won and became the dominant species of this planet wouldn’t people think my child was nuts? He would certainly believe it since those would be what he kjnew to be true. Is that any less likely than Jesus being the son of God and rising from the dead? Has anyone ever seen anything rise from the dead before? Just because lots of people believe in something does not mean it is real.

Coming from a college campus in New Orleans it’s remarkably to see the religious correlations between being educated and wealthy or non-educated and poor. I’m pretty sure you all can discern who believes in what.

The army is comprised almost entirely of lower and middle class kids who need to find something to get them through the incredibly troubling times that they face every day. Throughout my experiences I’ve found that those who have struggled the most have generally been more likely to turn to a higher power for guidance. AA, the army and prison all stress religious belief as a way of life.

It must be hard to be in the army. It must be harder to make an thught out conscious decision and get threatened for not believing what you are told is right. GO JEREMY HALL!

Having experience with this, I can tell you that religious prejudice & discrimination, and suggested practice, and even imposition is alive and well in the US Military.

Though, the DOD has taken great measures in trying to prevent this; it is simply a widespread cultural problem that has never been contained; has in many ways actually helped provide psychological support for the majority of personnel; yet because is left unchecked, flies in the face of our constitutionally protected rights of free speech and inherent freedom of religion.

At it’s core, this has stemmed from a problem of culture within our military, IMHO.

And absolutely not, the military, the function of going to war to protect one’s homeland/country; should not be a place where religious proselytizing is allowed.

But again, we let recruiters use our schools as recruiting stations… so it only makes sense that some of these same people are abusing their positions to impose their belief systems on those around them on the battlefield.

This is not right.

This is just another example of how the Bush administration is pushing Christianity down our throats. This reminds me of his so called faith based initiatives.

“However, we are to be reminded that this country was founded on christian principles, so to restrict observers of their faith in Jesus would be very wrong.”..excuse me, but the majority of our founding fathers were DIESTS and not Christians..Thomas Jefferson felt Christianity was a three-headed monster…most Americans are clueless…lets get real people …this country was founded by people leaving religious persecution…its all starting over again…I wish Americans would open a book sometime in their life and not just the Bible…

I don’t think this issue is about freedom of religion, but more like an attack at Christianity. Everybody has it’s own agenda and cases like this are enhance to weakens the christian faith.

In my experience prior to retirement from the military, there was some proselytizing taking place. The greatest offenders were the fundamentalist or the so-called born agains. If a person wanted to hold a bible study session at my unit, it was done after working hours, away from the work space and was not part of regular conversation outside the study area. I also observed what I felt to be a major uptic in religious observance during and since VN. Leaders can and should control how and where the information is shared, those not wanting to participate could op out w/o fear of repercussions. If the situation with the young Pfc occured as described, the officer or NCO was wrong. However, in the age of victims, we have lost a lot in where non-denominational prayer could be offered- sporting events, at the start of the school day, etc. If the pentagon doesn’t believe events like this occur, they are hiding their collective heads in the sand. Just like the 3 monkeys-see no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.

If this guy is getting death threats, I doubt it’s just because he’s an atheist and more likely that he’s preaching his beliefs and being condescending towards those that do believe. I know the type, and they’re annoying. It’s just as bad to be an atheist and preach it to others as it is to be a fundamentalist and do the same thing. Maybe he needs to get off his high horse and be more tolerant of those that do believe. I find it hard to believe people want to kill him for his beliefs. More likely, it’s because he’s an ass.

He has a right to believe in anything he wants to even if it’s just himself. They shouldn’t discriminate against him, he has his freedom of religion.

“Prayers endorsed/let by officers should not be allowed.”
- by Dan, posted on July 7th, 2008 3:27 pm ET

I couldn’t disagree more! That’s why we have Chaplains at the military, as well as in the police. Soldiers, officers, they need all kind of support, including spiritual one (for the believers, of course). Chaplains are officers who not just “endorse” or “let” people pray: they conduct prayers, they provide spiritual support for those in need, Christians or not!! Again: if this soldier suffered any kind of persecution because of his atheism, then this should be investigated and the responsibles for that, punished. Period. But lets not condemn Chaplains for their work in the military.

Want to see this in action? Just read the post by Lee Collins. How ignorant and frightening. He actual wrote, “Who does he think has keep him alive in the war.”. I would ask Mr. Collins, who has kept the enemy alive in the war then? And by his faulty logic then the soldiers who have died were NOT kept alive by Jesus. This circular logic is too pervasive in this country. Use your brain people.

Another example of religious bigotry. The majority of religious people do not expect everyone to believe as they do. However, there are unfortunately a significant number of the religious who go beyond rightfully expressing and acting on their believes and feel it neccessary to oppress and even hate those that are different. For Christians, it is an amazing response to Jesus and his divine guidance of love and treating everyone as you would like to be treated. Fundamentalism and fanaticism is the same abberation, whether it emanates from a Muslim, Christian, or atheistic believe system.

So sad, so sad.
The USA and Canada have given away everything our countries were founded on. Our forefathers escaped other countries so they would be free to practice Christian beliefs.
And we sit idly back on our fat butts and let every other foreigner and immigrant enter our countries and take over our way of life. And now an Athiest wants special rights! Sorry to burst your bubble but athieism ISN’T a religion. You don’t get special rights. If you want to be an athiest (which by the way means you believe in NOTHING, not just God) then I say, good for you, but don’t you DARE oppose my right to practice what my forefathers fought and died for!
Just try practicing Christianity in China or Iraq etc and see what it gets you!! Yet every day, people from those countries crowd into North America and expect to be able to practice their religions freely, and guess what, we let them. Because we are a bunch of pansy assed losers who stopped fighting for our countries and what we were origianlly founded on! I say if you want to practice your religion, go back to your country and do so! And let the rest of us get back to the intent of our forefathers!

Soldiers in the past have died for the freedoms we so richly use. Some of those solidiers were atheists, some were not. Religious freedom allows for folks to believe in whatever they want and are free to change it whenever they want. This story seems a little fishy to me, seeing as how most Christians I know aren’t so hate-filled as this article seems to suggest. But, for the sake of argument, let’s say everything is correct.

The only problem here is the promotion — which should not have relied on religious beliefs. If that is the case, the military needs some fixing up. But as for the incident at the table and all that, those who do believe in God should be allowed to discuss freely with one another, just like atheists are free to discuss with one another.

I have a very hard time with any person who does not allow for ideas and ways of life other than their own. Our country was founded with freedom of religion as one of its basic rights. I am constantly amazed at the number of people who proudly claim to be American but are angry if you do not believe exactly as they believe. How can those protecting that right tread all over it?!?
After 9/11 there was a small gathering to pay our respects to all those who died. The lady leading the prayer hoped that “they all found Jesus in time”. In my opinion, this was very disrespectful to all the non-Christians who died and to those who participated in the gathering.
I am responsible for all of the hurt and disappointment I have caused, my so called “sins”. No one else is obligated to carry that burden for me. And no one has the right to critisize me because I do not put that off on to Jesus.
Unlike Specialist Hall, I know that there is a Divine. (I do not say that “I beleive in God” since it makes him sound like Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny!) I just know there is a Divine based on personal experiences.
However, Specialist Hall, I honor your right to stand by your beliefs. As a one time atheist, I hope you leave the door open for discussion and for possible experiences of your own. You’ll be surprised how your points of view on many, many things can change with time!

To poster John Patterson, you are correct that this country was founded by Christians and they based some laws on Judeo/Christian principles. However, the fact that a group of Christians elected to add the separation of church and state to the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights is indisputable evidence that they were adamant that their religous beliefs should not govern the actions of others. Your comment (and the actions of the military leaders described in this article) ignore this truism.

How hypocritical of the soldiers condemning him for not being a Christian. The military is intended to fight for the rights of this country… one of the top rights is freedom of religion.

Being a long time believer, I have to say Jeremy Hall has totally been discriminated against. I applaud him for standing up for his non-religious beliefs. I’m ashamed of anyone that asked him to leave the table at Thanksgiving dinner or any dinner. I hope there was some other reason for his being denied any promotion. Hang tough Jeremy, you’re in the right. As a believer: I ask ANYONE to please PROVE to Jeremy there is a GOD. : ) I wont hold my breath.

@ PAUL FRANCIS: “Christians are called to share their faith freely and openly with non-believers, and to deny them that right is denying them their freedom of religion which is a constitutional right.” Well, we all know christians sometimes get out of hand, especially when nonbelievers want no part of “God”. While christians are told to share their faiths, the bible says to “kick the dust off your sandals and part” when someone refuses to listen. Jeremy was and is being treated very un-christianlike.

The fellow soldier that ask Mr. Hall if he believed in Jesus after his near-death experience,
For all the Christian soldiers in Iraq that lost their lives, believing in God that are now dead, now do YOU believe in Jesus?!
True Christians don’t force “religion/beliefs” onto people. Jesus didn’t use coersion, why should Christians/Christian organizations do so to non-believers?

Q: Should military members be allowed to proselytize?

A: Without hesitation. They are fighting for that right along with others. Should they be able to do it to the point of harrasment? No, but to deny them the right to talk about their faith or even try to convice others of the same would be to deny them the very rights they are fighting for and so many have already given their lives for.

Jason
[godtalkradio]

M Jones - Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you.

It’s unfortunate that Specialist Hall faced the kind of judgementalism he did, and even more unfortunate that such bigotry exists among the rank-and-file of the military in this day and age. In a situation where men and women are fighting for their lives, and depend entirely on the trust and rapport with their fellow soldiers to do so, even small seeds of malcontent can blossom into flowers of death when the pressure is on. Any kind of tension between the soliders should be dealt with in a way that is fair to each party involved, and that includes issues of religion and faith. However, open ostracization is destructive, shows of unacceptance are unacceptable. You don’t have to like your fellow soldiers for their beliefs, but you must respect and support them. That means settling such differences in a quiet and judicious way.

I was sin the military for 8 years and my story is not much different than this. I was a catholic prior to joining the service. In fact went to confirmation. After 2 years I made a decision that if there was a GOD that the stuff I saw happen to people would have been avoided. Especially with kids. I have it reaffirmed every day the media tells of a kid baking in a car because their mom needed to be at a bar at 8am in the morning in SoCal. So I had by dog tags changed and my records changed.
So this is where I differ from the current story. I never had one remark from anyone in my chain of command. I was in the Infantry and we very rarely talked about religion. We had some devout Christians in our unit but they were more of an outcast than I was. So I guess I’m saying this kid makes it a point to bring up his non-religion beliefs besides just tabling them. I still go to funerals and weddings for family members. I am even a god parent to both my Nice and Nephew. I just don’t pray or believe in God. I have high morals and beliefs on how my kids should be raised and how I treat others. I just don’t believe in God and no one questions me about it.

You gotta be some kind of stupid to believe in fairy tales, and invisible perverts flaoting around in the clouds, watching your every move. But that’s exactly what they want, a gullible nation ready to kill with the spread of a lie.

I get the impression we are there fighting for Oil and Israel. That makes it a Crusade. Are Crusades in our Constitution?

I haven’t seen this kind of discrimination in my military time, but I would not be surprised. Frankly, as an agnostic it’s irritating to have to hear the veiled or not so veiled spiritual sermons at military functions, or to participate in prayers in formations, but I just go through the motions which I’m sure some of my theist counterparts do as well. I prefer to thank my battle buddy, my training, etc, when things go right, and forget about playing the blame game all together, it’s much more effective.

I get really annoyed with people treating Atheism an alternate belief. it is not.

Religion is a blind faith belief, that defies all logic, in an undefined supernatural supreme being of some kind.

Atheism is a logical understanding that no real evidence exists to support any religion or supernatrual belief.

Personnally, I think a god is a wonderful idea, but that;s all it is, an idea, without a shred of evidence to support it.

As a Born again Believer, and as a USA citizen, and very proud to be both, I have much simpathy for this young man. Many Christian beliefs have been slowly taken away and denied in this country, as the right to pray in schools, (this is my right and my children and grandchildrens) the constant battle over the Pledge of Allegience and the Ten Commandments. Maybe this did happen with a few soldiers but I cannot believe that the whole military takes this stand. My son served in the US AirForce for 6 yrs and I never heard of anythng like this forcing someone to believe one way or another, and as far as sueing the military, good luck to you…especially in this case…maybe you need to get alone with someone who really knows about Gods word so as to explain things to you…I don’t even know you Mr. Hall, but I love you and I know God does…I will pray for your salvation. and thanks for serving our country, no matter what you believe in….May God Bless You whatever you decide to do….

How can a war-making organization call itself Christian? Jesus was against violenece of any kind.

This is in answer to John Patterson’s comment… Why do we keep hearing this nonsense about this country being founded on Christian principles? It’s time believers face it was not… the Pilgrims didn’t come to set their own religion, but running away from religion. If anything, this country was founded on freedom.

You want to talk about the Founding Fathers? Fine… Why did they make sure neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution have any references to these supposed “Christian Principles?” Well, because they were not Christians (something deemed an anachronism during the Enlightenment) but rather Deists, they “believed” in a nature god, not in the Christian God. Have you ever read about Jefferson’s Bible, where he removed all the supranatural passages? Do you know that “In God We Trust” is not the national motto (that would be “E Pluribus Unum”, “Of many, one”) and it was only added in the height of the Cold War, in the 1950s? That there was no Prayer Breakfast until about the same time?

The idea of the Christian God would have been laughed at by most of the Founding Fathers and yet people keep repeating the US were founded on Christian principles…

Read American history, read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, read the biographies of the Founding Fathers and tell me that this country was founded on Christian principles… it was NOT!

To correct John Patterson’s comment about this country being founded on Christian priciples…here is a quote from someone that truly knows what this country was founded on, Thomas Jefferson, the author of our constitution said this: “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.” -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814. Jefferson was also a self-declared atheist. Look it up.

This is an interesting article. I am a Christian and completely respect other people’s choices in whatever they choose to believe. It’s a shame this man was treated unfairly because of his choice to be an atheist. I do find it interesting that he does not complain about the atheists friends he met which caused him to re think his religion in the first place.

Everyone serving right now is making a tremendous sacrifice for this country, it is not right to chastise someone for believing differently than yourself. While I am sure there are policies in place to prevent this type of discrimination sometimes what is written on paper does not translate into real life.

I think people have a right to discuss religion and should be able to. But if you can not do it respectfully and leave it at the door when at the work place well maybe it shouldn’t be brought up at all.

When majority of our population is Christian, then majority of our army will be Christian too. Why hide the fact??? Why should we pretend that we are not a Christian nation?

When I read articles like this, how I long for the good old days when Thomas Jefferson advocated for the separation of church and state…..

Why file a lawsuit against the federal government for religious discrimination when you have no religion.

I just don’t understand the need of christians that everyone believe the same stories they do. In that sense they appear no different than fanaticaI muslims who demand the death of any who might insult their prophet. Essentially, it’s just ‘my way or the highway.’ I applaud Hall for having the courage not to believe and not to stand down when challenged. We actually need more men and women like him.

It’s a shame when myth becomes more important than reality - and even becomes reality.
Someone above commented “How can your ‘beliefs’ be discriminated against if you don’t have any?” It’ is what you believe that’s the issue. Jeremy Hall has beliefs - belief in truth based on empirical evidence rather than on ancient stories and prejudices and he has the courage to stand up for what is right in the face of peer pressure and hostility. If more people read the Bible with the same critical analysis they apply to other literature, there would be more Jeremy Halls.

To Larry - so you think threatening the life of a non-believer is okay?

If CNN wants to dig into the real story here it will reveal the true depths of systemic discrimination in many aspects of the US Military and the current administrations culture of advancement
How many Generals currently serving are non fundamentalist Christians?
please open this up CNN…
The US is a theocracy as much as the people they are fighting against
kudos to this young man…

d

As a former Christian evangelical and former Protestant minister, this story concerns me on several fronts. Mr. Hall is right to challenge an environment of coercion that is only the tip of the iceberg in the military. This is not about atheism. It is about what it means to be an intelligent American. Mr. Hall has been serving his country, and in stead of blindly following what he’s been taught, he learns to think for himself and make an important life choice. If people want religion, in the military or in the nation, everyone knows where to go. There are herds of preachers. But where does someone go to ask the hard and searching questions, where their choices and decisions will be respected? That’s not generally going to be in the military or, unfortunately, in many of our communities in this country.

Here is yet another reason why organized religion is becoming a menace in the United States. I’m not saying that religion is a terrible thing, not in the least, for some it’s a salvation…for others a guide, but for many, it’s nothing more than something that is more often now getting tied into the news and interfering in places that it really shouldn’t be. We have all questioned the religions of the world, and it’s hard to swallow for some. Singling out a person who doesn’t prescribe to the same flavor or life that you have isn’t right. The Constitution is supposed to protect the citizens of this country, as well as soliders, from having to endure in things of this nature. This is just another point of reference for us to take that the separation of church and state is not only important but necessary in protecting all of us from beign tormented and ostracized.

Well, so far all we’ve heard is one soldier’s story; we certainly cannot make any conclusions or judgements based upon what one soldier & one correspondent have to say.

To the previous poster, of course soldiers should feel free to sit anywhere they want, but Mr. Hall claims that he was kicked out of a table due to his beliefs.

That said, it is really a petty argument. Out of all Mr. Hall’s claims in the story, the only possible sticking point is the denial of promotion due to his atheism which would be difficult to prove in court. All the other examples are but unfortunate cases of rude behavior.

My personal experience as both a racial minority and an agnostic living in the bible belt is that as long as I kept quiet about my beliefs or lack there of I am able to function normally in life. Most of the Christians I’ve met are not overtly discrimatory but they do like to stick to their own and if you want to survive in this country and not burn bridges unfortunately the only viable option is to sit down and shut up.

We agnostics/atheists have to be thankful that we live in the present time and not 300 years ago where in Mr. Hall will not only get kicked out of the military but also will probably be burning at the stakes.

I believe that it was H. L. Mencken that so aptly advised: “religion is the greatest fomentor of hate the world has ever known”. Let’s hope that Specialist Hall is successful in his quest for justice.

During my time in the Army (2002-2006) I witnessed many events and circumstances very similar to what Spc. Hall described I had a couple of commanders who attempted to force the entire unit to attend church services. It is very common for chaplains to engage prosletizing by during mandatory, non-religious events such as the re-integration sessions troops go through after returning from combat.

I could list specific events all day long but I suppose one of the best overall examples would be the dog-tags issued to every member of the military. The last line is for religious preference. If you do not hold to one of the major religions the only choice availible is “No Preference.” I did indeed have a preference, a very strong one in fact. I had my own tags made at my own expense with “Atheist” on the bottom line.

i find this story very credible, i went through some unpleasantness with Xians in my basic training unit. i felt threatened on several occasions. i went to Buddhist and Xian services to get out of doing chores or being bored. You don’t want to be singled out or feel alienated in such situations.

Somethings viewers of this show should realize: One’s religion/beliefs are NOT a choice. You can choose to go to church, but you can’t choose actually believe that someone is listening to your prayers. Your life experiences lead you toward or away from faith.

Hall WAS threatened. And he DID have a bodyguard. Stop denying just because it is unflattering of your religion. There are plenty of Xians who will threaten and carry out threats if you question their ridiculous beliefs. Having the audacity to not believe is enough to make them insecure.

Larry, atheists have beliefs, just not in gods. i, for one, believe in freedom of religion and speech. i should be able to not go to church and not be threatened for not doing so.

“Who does he think has keep him alive in the war? I can’t blame any of the other soldiers at all for their actions because mine would have been the same”. - Lee

His fellow soldiers, his body armor and his aim keep him alive.

If you are reading this and find my sarcasm offensive… well now you have a sense of what life is like for anyone in the US who isn’t Xian. But we don’t have as big a club to back us up. One sign you are a member of a privileged class is feeling threatened when someone outside your class asserts their rights or equality.

I too am Christian. During my 24 year stint I was not harassed, but I did remain quite wile others were practicing their religious ceromonies. I did not understand, but I also did not disturb. Its their believe, as I have mine.

Practise “Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.”

I read that somewhere……

I was in the Air Force and came across several atheists, Wiccans, and other non-Christian beliefs. I never encountered any significant discrimination among military individuals. I don’t doubt this guy’s assertion that on a few occasions, someone made a comment to him about God or Jesus, but it’s a stretch to say that he was denied a promotion because he’s an atheist. Also, if you are at a table and make a big point about refusing to pray to “supernatural beliefs”, well, I imagine that someone might ask you to sit somewhere else, especially if you’re deployed and tension is high. I’m not particularly religious myself, but I keep my beliefs within, and I’m not offended by what other people want to believe. This guy could have done himself a big favor by keeping his mouth shut. Maybe Christians thought he was discriminating against THEM when he disrespected their dinner prayers.

This is NOT the norm!!!!! My husband has people of all religions as well as atheiests and agnostics in his squadron. He has for 18 years now. There is more acceptance of personal beliefs than every before!! Our troops are made to sound like ultra Christian homophobes. Give these men and women more credit. Just as in society, there are a few bad apples. The commands do not recruit you to be a Christian nor do they look down on you if you aren’t. They have SO many other things to worry about!!!

Those who believe in this “religious tolerance” stuff are only kidding themselves. If someone does not want to eat with you for whatever reason they decide not to eat with you, then will you force them?

So someone asked him if he believed in Jesus. So what? Grow up.

It’s interesting that the same people who condemn open expression of Christianity are dumb silent when it comes to taxpayer subsidized radical islamic schools. They don’t seem to object to religious expression in that venue.

Anyone who is NOT Christian is never challenged on their open condemnation of Christianity via their own religions, or via atheism.

What has become acceptable is silencing Christianity.

Is it really a suprise, in a war that currently seems to have a such a religious (Christian vs. Muslim) base that our red, white and blue is affected by the cross?

What a shame - and an embarrasment for the US armed forces that have put their lives and views to the side - to fight a war that as of recent appears to be little more than a vendetta started by a slight of hand.

I’m still unsure how we refuse to learn how much violence religious views cause in the world today. How many complications - how many undue deaths.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

I believe the War was named “Iraqui Freedom”, yet we are unable to excercise that same freedom as citiznes of our country. America preaches freedom in all aspects, but only if we excersice it they way the government wants you to. Will we ever learn to let others be the way they want, even if we don’t agree with them? This soldier was used and now he is being disposed of, marked as no longer wanted. They took what they wanted of him but once he didn’t agree he is being dumped.

I am an American Soldier with 27 years of service. I am not a religious person, and my dog tags say No Preference. I have never been exposed to any kind of religious discrimination, but then I have never put myself out there as non-religious.

My experience is that religion is present and practiced, but not forced. Most ‘events’ like dinners, ceremonies, etc., have a chaplain or assistant offering an invocation and benediction, which I have always perceived as non-denominational. Reference is made to God, but no more than that. Each person will get from it what they choose. For me, I tend to look around and see the various practices of others, be it bowing their heads, praying, making the sign of the cross, or looking around like me.

It is against the principles and regulations of the military to overtly try and push or require religion from anyone. That being said, individuals may not always follow those rules, and they deserve to be disciplined if their behavior is offensive to anyone. This should be the same as any other behavior that is offensive to someone, be it through speech or action. The discipline can be as simple as telling the person that their behavior is unacceptable, or as far reaching as prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

One of the interesting aspects was the reference to a violation of his First Amendment rights. Soldiers do not have First Amendment rights! They only have the rights granted to them by law and regulations.

Roger:

Mencken was incorrect in his assesment.
It should be:
“Human beings are the greatest fomentor of hate the world has ever known.”

I think I speak for just about everyone when I say that no soldier, or American for that matter, should be discriminated against for their faith or lack of faith.

I also think it is silly to expect the Military not to have a strong Christian influence. Last time I checked, Christians make up the majority of the Military population. I am not saying that this gives Christians in the Military the right to do whatever they want to do, but I think the strict philosophy of separation of church and state in the midst of an environment where young men and women are putting their lives up for others is simply foolish.

For many, faith is something that makes up the very core of our lives. And while discrimination should be harshly punished, we should never create an environment where the core values of faith can not be practiced. Even when that faith happens to be classified as the majority.

Let’s see……. Religions and the military……… Kill, Kill….HMMM!
Since time started to say the least!!
One would think atheism would be a road for promotion!!

I think this is mostly likely a frivolous lawsuit. I don’t think he was forced to participate in religious activities and believe in God.

Everyone has passionate beliefs that are going to differ from others. Do you think that if they were all atheists and there was a Christian in the mix it would be different? I Think Not.

People’s beliefs have been joked about and challenged for years. God/No God, War/No War, Giants/Eagles, Coke/Pepsi.

Shouldn’t all people passionately believe something?

Stop being so sensitive…..

When I enlisted in the military in 1968, my beliefs could best be described as Christian. The military was, from my perspective, very fair about religion, and Christianity was encouraged but not pushed at my lowly level. They needed happy people at the bottom. Over 34 years, I progressed in rank and responsibility. I could tell that the Christian belief was pushed more and more the higher I got in rank and responsibility. I especially noticed the increase in pressure when I became an officer. The military was feeling less and less comfortable to me for this reason. I also started to notice that my advancement was less and less sure, no matter how good my job performance was. At one point, I could tell that not only was I not going to get promoted, but that they wanted to get rid of me. Even until the time I retired, I was still exploring faith. My big problem was that I did not attend church or openly profess my faith. While my peers were going into my boss’s office to pray behind closed doors, I remained in my cubicle. The feeling that you are serving in the military of a foreign country becomes very strong when you realize you are not wanted.

Since my retirement, I have had the leisure to study many aspects of the religious argument. I have come to the conclusion that nobody now and nobody before our time has ever had enough information to prove or disprove the existence of God, much less to define God, even less to determine the will of God, other than as science has provided us clues.

I do not to classify myself as an agnostic. I don’t like the term, although it makes a lot of sense as a definition of a person who does not know and knows that he does not know. I think the term carries some baggage in that it is interpreted as also carrying doubt. I have no doubt, except maybe that I doubt that anybody at all in the world actually understands the mind of God, even in a small way. I simply have arrived at the conclusion that the question of God is unknowable at this time and that we would better spend our time trying to solve the problems that plague humanity on our own.

I think that 90% of all of humanity’s problems can be solved by us. We can learn to deal with the other 10% better if we are honest about what we know and do not know.

trsgrv said: “What has become acceptable is silencing Christianity.”

Good point and very true.

I believe that this story made the news, because most journalists are atheists. For instance, what is it that makes Jeremy Hall a remarkable young man?

I have one thing to say regarding this matter:

“When you understand why you reject all other Gods, you will understand why I reject yours as well.”

Oh, Please! None of you can possibly, seriously believe this story to be true! In this “new age” era of persecuting Christians for speaking up and out (as evidenced by many of the comments here) do you really believe this soldier was persecuted by the government for following the crowd? Really?

Personaly, I do not believe there is any such thing as an atheist. Someone who claims to disbelieve in God is just making an issue out of nothing, an excuse to make noise. Let’s see if I can follow this argument, ” I do not believe God exists, therefore I am going to spend my life loudly claiming His non-existence”! Have any of you EVER met a quiet atheist? Puh-lease!

I have no doubt that this soldier is suffering from some level of non-conformity and that his bunkees are suffering from him, but that he is being persecuted for being an atheist? Not likely!

Paul Francis - you say “Sounds to me like the soldier was initially “proselytized” by other atheists in the army” but the article says “after his first tour of duty, he met some friends who were atheist and decided to read the Bible again”. There is a big difference.

Presumably his “friends” were people he freely chose to associate with, not part of his Army unit. Anyone can share their faith openly and honestly, but they cannot discriminate against someone who does not agree with their beliefs. That right is at the core of what we believe in as a nation. And, by the way, that is not based on “Christian” principles, but the writings of Enlightenment philosophers.

Actually, hundreds of millions have been slaughtered via atheist governments (Hitler, Mao, and so on, while tens of thousands were murdered int he name of Christianity (witch hunts, Spanish Inquisition).

So people asked him if he believed in Jesus? So what? Grow up. So, should the 5 year old child was was told she couldn’t add her picture to the wall with the other 5 year olds because she wrote Jesus on her picture file a lawsuit?

The 5 year old I have compassion for. The grown man, I do not.

First off, this kind of behavior on the part of the military isn’t limited to the Army. The Navy suffers from the “Christianity is the only Way” mentality as well.

I was in the military’s substance abuse rehibilitation program for alchohol dependance. The SARP program I was run like boot camp. Open bay berthing, constant audio and video survailance (even in berthing), daily counciling sessions with military councilors, and manditory attendance at daily AA meetings. The program is based off of AA; and requires, as part of treatment, the patients to accept a “higher power”.

As an athiest, I don’t believe in God, Allah, luck, or any other type of dogma. When I was forced to explain my religious views, I was charged with non-compliance with the program. I was placed before a comittee and it was explained to me that my reason for being an alchoholic was because I didn’t have faith in god; and that in order to continue with the program I would have to adopt a belief in a higher power. I was told that without god, I could never be cured. I was ordered to comply with the program, and in order to do so, I would have to choose a “higher power”.

I told the members of the comittee that I would not adopt religion because they told me to, that I could not be ordered to believe in religion, and that I found it very disrespectful to have someone else try to dictate my beliefs to me.

I was discharged from the Navy two weeks later. Initially my discarge was to be “general under honorable conditions”, for “SARP failure”. When I made the comment that my discharge was for religious reasons, and that I planned to sue for wrongful termination, the JAG officer and a few others took a quick trip to the confrence room. When they came back, my discharge was changed to an “Honorable Discharge”.

It’s almost a year later, and I have a good job, stable life, am not an alchoholic, and still an athiest.

So should the Christian families who are under attack from the non-Christians to remove the crosses from their family’s graves in Arlington Cemetery feel similarly preyed upon?

The US Military is INFACT a Christian Military. When I was 18 years old I signed up to become a Marine, I never did become a Marine because at the time I was still very “unruly” and when a high ranking officer “got in my face” during the physical screening process I walked out.

However, I did tell the Staff Sergent who was recruiting me that I did not believe in God. I explained my idea of what “God” is and told him I did not believe in organizaed religion because it is nothing more than a form of control. The Staff Sergent told me not to ever tell anyone my true beliefs about God and he then went on to describe what happens to people who do not believe in God. The Staff Sergent told me that when it was “lights out” I would definitely be targeted by other recruits.

From my very limited experience with the U.S. Military I can say without doubt that they are a Christian organization- whether or not the Military portreys itself in this manner to the public.

Best of luck to my friend with his lawsuit against the U.S. Military.

i’ve been in the military for 9 years now and i’ve found an overall acceptance of all beliefs in each of my chain of commands. i’ve never seen any thing like the claims this soldier is making. maybe he just wants to get out. there are better ways to get out though than blaim others for your lack of conformity. the military is an overall conforming way of life and conformity, not suppression is needed for the safety of each unit. good luck in getting out mr. hall!

My ancestors were among those who came to this nation to get away from sectarianism and war as ways of life. Some 130 years later they fought the Revolution, then drafted the Bill of Rights, in their certainty that people must have absolute freedom of conscience, including the complete freedom to believe in no supernatural forces.

It is absolutely clear that the “Founding Fathers” were nontheists–deists at best, but certainly not men who held puritanical, fundamentalist beliefs, and certainly not men who believed in any religious dogma, and certainly not men who would consider that to have a place in the conduct of American civil or political life.

Jefferson’s way of reading “the gospels” was with a pair of scissors. Washington refused to stay at church services through communion. And so on. This religious twisting of our nation’s freedom of conscience into some support for anti-American oppression is appalling, and my ancestors–including Tom Paine–cry out to all to save this nation from Christians and any other religious people who don’t understand the simple principle of ABSOLUTE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

I am also of of a long line of people who served this nation’s military, with honor and distinction, and am qualified for the DAR. I never joined that organization because they require belief in god, which I will not pretend to. It is anti-American.

This lawsuit is surprising, can he prove he was denied promotion due to his belifefs, I am sure there are a number of athiests in the US military… do they all feel the same way? If someone is so convinced that there is no God, why should they be swayed by other people’s comments.?, Individualistic comments are personal opinion only… and cannot be attributed to an organization or country for that matter!

Being a Catholic and raised in a non-christian country…I have often encountered such references… but never affected by them.

Best place to be to defend your self or faith, you have a weapon so people she be scared for their own life if felt being harrassed. Military is life and death free zone.

We are “asked” to pray before every mission and other ceremonies. A chaplain leads it. The chaplain’s always (in my experience) Christian. All the religious material he distributes is Christian (including some en español). He prays using non-specific terms but it’s all thinly veiled.
I enjoy arguing religion with the people in my platoon, and I do not say that there is institutionalized religious bigotry, but chaplains have to go. Let mental health professionals deal with soldiers’ mental health. I’ll pray or not pray on my own.

Should the Military be able to profess their beliefs in an open square environment? No. They should not. The military works as a single unit made up many individuals that function and interact as one unit. When religion becomes a factor then because of the war that we are in, annomoticites get stirred up. When the unit then is engaged in combat these individuals may take the chance to “liberate” their unit from the “undersireable’s”. This will cause breakdowns that will tear the unit apart and cause un-neccessary causlities, thus effecting the overall mission succes and goal of the unit.

Those that are doing the intimidating and harrassment of these military personel are not unlike the fundamentalist’s abroad, except they don’t or have not yet blown buildings up due to their fundamentalism.

Those that keep their faith to theirself and work as a single unit are the real military. The others are looking after theirself and have no regard for any other person.

If this continues to occur in the Military it will then spread back into the United States making this country a COE (Church of England) environment, which will cause more resentment for these individuals and possibly start w war here.

This is because Rumsfeld (defered five times) was only looking out for his own personal interest’s while in the defense department.

I were the SoD I would summarily discharge any person’s engaged in this activity and put them on a potential terrorist watch list.

I do not beleive this. My husband has been a soldier for over 10 years. We have been through numerous deployments the military, though harsh (it does take more than hugs and deep conversations to protect our freedom) has ALWAYS displayed tolerance. I think many poople in today’s society, whine, A LOT. Personal I am tired of it. This soldier feels he is being discriminated against, well I am sorry he feels that way but honestly he is a soldier and should start acting like one. It sounds like he wants out of the military, I think the Army should cut their losses and let him go. I wouldnt want him in combat with my husband. Wheather you believe in God or not should not have a bearing on wheter you are a good soldier or not, it sounds like this man is the latter. I am proud of being an Army wife and I am dissapointed so many on this page are submitting comments agains the very people who protect thier freedoms, shame on you.

I was in the Army. Please, if you were in the service but it was not recent, do not assume that the way things were is the way things are. They are absolutely not, in regards to this particular story especially.

Also, a lot of commenters are making judgments already and the story has not even run yet. This is a disturbing trend of pre-judgment and is unfair to the story and all of those involved.

Do some homework before the show on your own. Check out the web site for the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. The great deal of current information there is absolutely shocking and should disturb everyone, since it involves a weakening of our armed services from within.

If the (excuse the term) “generic” prayers and practices of the military’s chaplains and officers were the same today as they were when I was in the service, then the MRFF would not exist.

Unfortunately that is not the case, and it is a direct result of the lack of moral leadership from the very top, which has been replaced by the much more profitable, new version of hypocritical “kill them all before they kill us” American Christianity (”We’re in a war for the moral soul of America”, “Take back America for Jesus”, etc.).

By the way, the marine did not ask for a bodyguard, the military assigned him one, and they would not waste the manpower if they did not have evidence of a credible threat.

I also don’t think this is a waste of time, since the mission should be to perform the mission, and the military’s mission has nothing to do with religion (unless you’re a chaplain). If this is the tip of an iceberg, and I believe it is, then this show will be many people’s first introduction to the fact that we do have a problem here.

As most posters here have said, this is a nation of many religions, and no religion has any right to coerce any citizen to obey the standards or practices of that religion. All members of the military are covered by the Uniform Code of Military Conduct, and the First Amendment right of freedom of religion and from religion (to use the modern description) is included in that Code, as the Pentagon official stated in the description of this show.

Every time this issue comes up some try to misportray it as a situation where someone is trying to prevent someone else from praying. That is not the issue! The issue is that those in the military who don’t believe are routinely subjected to prayers, claims that in order to be a leader you have to be a spiritual person, etc. To those who are doing so, stop changing the issue. Hats off to Specialist Hall and Mikey Weinstein.

No wonder so few Jews join the U.S. military!

Atheists have beliefs? Well I guess that they probably don’t all have the same beliefs, just as not all Xians hold the same beliefs. Myself, I’m Buddhist; more of a spiritual philosophy than an organized religion and even we do not all share the same philosophies.

How much of the Civil Rights movement was a Religious Rights movement, since the leaders were/are tied to the church? Could an african-american atheist find a place in the 60’s?

My lifestyle and my religion encourages me to allow all others to believe as they may. My religion does encourage helping others to find truth, but never forcing others and especially not persecuting them for their beliefs.
I personally don’t understand why an athiest would ever risk his life. It doesn’t make sense to me. I’d hold on to every minute and second I had if I believed that it was all just going to end.
I am sure that many jews, muslims, mormons, or jehovah’s witnesses have been persecuted in the military, it just doesn’t show up on CNN because the athiest and the homosexual have become CNN’s symbol of mainstream America.