I’m one of the few that is fine with the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Policy” and I don’t really see why there should be any difference here. Everyone should be completely free to believe in what they want, but keep it to yourself – and that should be applied across the board. Prayers endorsed/let by officers should not be allowed.

This is true story, if your american and not christian you are deemed as a terrorist. Thats just not right.

I believe military personnel have a right to exspress their faith if they so desire. I also believe that they should have the right to have no belief if that is their choice. However, we are to be reminded that this country was founded on christian principles, so to restrict observers of their faith in Jesus would be very wrong.

I do believe tha tis is within evry one’s rights tobeleieve what they want to believe.An individual has no right to iforce them to pray read the bible or practice thier religon ,in thier time to themeselves. Leave it up to the person don’t center them ou like the soliders did.

Mr. Hall should be commended for his actions, fighting the Iraqi insurgents while bunking down with fellow soldiers who despised him. This is no different from when blacks were asked to fight in world war 2 but were kept in separate hosing.

This is discrimination at its worst. He has the right to choose what religion, if any, he believes in and the military cannot mistreat him because of this decision. The military as a whole obviously does not embrace religious discrimination, but various individuals in the military who are christians may discriminate against those who have different faiths or no faith at all because they hold their beliefs so dear that they find it impossilbe to be tolerant of those who disagree. They think that if you don’t believe the same thing they do then there is something wrong with you. Its ridiculous. Just some dumb individuals who don’t understand the militaries policy of religious tolerance.

This doesn’t surprise me one bit, atheists are the least trusted and least respected people in this backward superstitious country. It’s no coincidence that every presidential candidate has to make sure the electorate believes that he or she really does believe in a God who sacrificed Himself to Himself to change laws He Himself made. This ridiculousness should have been relegated to the status of laughable nonsensical mythology hundreds of years ago.

This story is disturbing, but not surprising, given the many reports that have been published about religious bigotry and proselytizing at the Air Force Academy.

The members of the military in Iraq are sacrificing so much for their country. It saddens me to think that any of them would be harrassed by fellow soldiers. Undoubtedly stress levels are high in Iraq, but that is no excuse for intolerance. I think our military needs better training.

This is a little far from how things were for me. I was a LCpl in the Marines, and was also an athiest. I was never discriminated against, ever. I went to church twice in boot camp because i was bored. my dog tags said athiest on them. I was in several debates with people in the fleet about why i felt the way i did. This kid is obviously very weak mentally if he is so easily convinced his beliefes are wrong. Maybe the regular army is a fundamentalists christian organization, but in the Marine Infantry no such problems exist.

religious harassment, which is what is being described, is no different than sexual harassment, in terms of how offensive it is to the recipient, and should not be tolerated in the military or in civilian life; it reflects the same kind of intolerance that we abhor in fundamentalist muslims who want to destroy us because we don’t share THEIR belief in koran

I too am Christian but i have to tell you this. I have had my worst experiences with Christian people and orginazations. I find the Chirstian world to be rude and hateful. Everything opposite of what the bible teaches. The Christians seem to want to act as if they are God. If the bible is true, God will be the one to change this man’s heart. You guys (the Christian”s) are trying to take Gods place. You Christians, Hate the Sin love the sinner. Wake up!! You’re looking stupid. It shows all us other people you do not read your BIBLE. And one further note: This man is in the war to help protect your family and homeland too. You should be ashamed!

Fundamentalist christians will say they’re the ones who are ostracized, citing cases where religious proselytizing isn’t allowed by the state. But I think they are allowed far more than they should be, including prayers at meal time in the military and on the senate floor. The thin excuse is that it’s a non-denominational/every-religion prayer, but I think this soldier’s experience proves that these prayers are just another foothold for fundamentalist christianity in the argument about the separation of church and state.

While I’ve met a couple Christians who do not proselytize, they have been the rare exception. It is a part of the mentality of American Christianity to bring as many into the fold as possible, usually based on the fear of the unknown. And I have no problem accepting that the Pentagon and the military, in general, espouse and practice proselytizing. It’s very unfortunate, and is a contradiction to the very ideals which this country often claims to defend with its military.

Separation of Church and State. One of the fundamental ideals on which this nation was conceived. The military, it officers, officials, or pawns should have the right to practice any faith they so choose. Considering they are fighting for their lives, truth be told, there should be much more pressing issues in simply surviving that the troops should be concerned about. What god, if any, the soldier next to you prays to, should not be an issue, so long as the bullets he/she is firing, travel the same direction as yours. It is the responsibility of the NCO’s to squash such petty sentiments before they become a national issue, let alone a solider having his life threatened by those he calls friends or colleagues. Tell me, how “Christ-like” is this response by his commanders and fellow soldiers. When asking “What Would Jesus Do?” , somehow “Love thy neighbor” comes to mind quicker than “Bludgeon him with malice and ignorance” does.

In regards to believing the Pentagon, I have seven words for you
“There are Nuclear Weapons are in Iraq”

I didn’t hear one actual life threat in the article. If there was a real threat, whether religious in nature or not, Specialist Hall would be right in acting upon it for his own protection. But, people will undoubtedly speak critically of any number of aspects of one’s life–we don’t need to sue anyone over it. I’ve been criticized and ostracized by my family for being an active, church-going Christian. It has caused me much pain, but I don’t sue them, nor do I need to have contentious discussions over it with them. No one can get inside another’s head and make him or her pray or not pray, so there is no risk there. Get used to being an adult and get used to being diappointed when everyone doesn’t embrace your values, because, simply, everyone will not. And by the way, my take is that God had a reason for keeping Specialist Hall here after the humvee attack whether he chooses to believe it or not at this time.

Obviously, if you tell the world you are an athiest often enough, you are going to find someone who will be deeply offended. Sue the DOD and Donald Rumsfeld? Absurd. But, some legal pinhead will take this case and waste thousands of dollars in court and for what. Hall needs to stop showboating and get on with life.

Yes I believe military personal are discriminating against Mr Hall. Is it against the rules you bet, but try and stop it. This is no diferent than what’s happening to Gay’s and Lesbiens

What the heck do you expect with the “Godly” president we have. Bunch of morons.

Of course I believe this soldier, and not the Pentagon. The military says that you are free to practice your beliefs or lack there of, but we all know that right wing religious conservatives everywhere try to force their beliefs down everyone else’s throats, being that they are the majority, especially with this Bible thumping Administration.

I don’t think that anything in the above story is religious discrimination . However if he were close to me while in the war in Iraq I would want him to get away from me as far as possible. I would not eat at the same table or be in the same Humvee.
Who does he think has keep him alive in the war. I can’t blame any of the other soldiers at all for their actions because mine would have been the same.

Lee

You can not have freedom OF religion until you can have freedom FROM religion.

–KnotGullible

Randi,
Very interesting story. When I first started reading I was for sure that Mr. Hall was just in it trying to get some money. But seeing now that he doesn’t want any just to make sure people can practice any religion that they want in the military it adds more credibility to his story for me.

I think that if you are willing to risk your life to serve our country then there should be no bias what so ever in anything that anyone chooses to do be it religion, sexual preference or anything else.

The Pentagon and the military may say that everyone has their freedom to choose but in reality we know that there are a lot of discriminations going on. I hope that Jeremy can change some of that with his lawsuit.

Looking forward to seeing your report.

Cindy…Ga.

I am appalled by what I am reading about the treatment of Specialist Hall based on his personal beliefs.
It’s frightening to think that U.S. military missions may be led for the purpose of ’spreading the word’ and ‘helping the heathens see the light’. Even if it’s not a complete reality (yet), if the perception is there for other countries, then it’s real to them.
Our country was founded on many things, including freedom of religion. That included the freedom to participate in your own choice of religion or to respectfully decline to participate at all. A soldier is fighting for his life, his loved ones, his neighbors and his country which includes our civil liberties. Please do not let our US military become some sort of “God’s Army.” That is scarier than any outside terrorist threat.

People recognized as having no religious affiliations or convictions are discriminated against in my experience. Many more just pay lip service to popular religious beliefs to avoid discrimination. The Atheists and Agnostics in my boot camp platoon cleaned barracks on Sundays while everyone else attended church services.

When I was attached to my infantry unit, there were few problems within the platoon, but I had a few instances where I faced discrimination with HQ personnel. For instance, I had to make my own ID tags because the pogue refused to make a tag with the word “Atheist” on it. The overt religious displays seem to be mostly political or a photo op (”Bow your head and pray. That’s an order!”).

Does the First Amendment provide for freedom to have no religion? How can your ‘beliefs’ be discriminated against if you don’t have any?

This seems like another frivolous lawsuit.

Sounds to me like the soldier was initially “proselytized” by other atheists in the army which caused him to move away from his Christian beliefs. If that’s acceptable, then its got to work both ways. Christians are called to share their faith freely and openly with non-believers, and to deny them that right is denying them their freedom of religion which is a constitutional right.

I believe that a citizen or soldier of the United States should be able to believe or in this case NOT believe what ever they want. I am a Christian and that is my choice, we have that choice because of that freedom that our armed forces gives us…. not sure when the army thought they could decide what a person should believe whether it be a soldier or a citizen. When it comes down to it, you have to be nonjudgmental when looking at the law or issues like religion no matter what you believe to be right. This kid is only 24 years old and was a Christian at one time; this does not necessarily mean that he is now an Atheist for life. It sounds like to me that he is pretty confused right now and that could be from what he has seen on his two tours that he has given for this country. Bottom line here is that what he is sacrificing for and risking his life for is not being protected and I do not blame him one bit for suing the Government. Besides, who says that the army has any credibility anyway, remember the Pat Tillman scandal…..

I would agree that something like this may be happening, although I think the idea of Hall needing/having a bodyguard assigned to him is a bit bogus.

I don’t think what Hall is proposing is possible. What sort of freedom are the soldiers being allowed to express if they can not choose who sits at their table and can’t express they’re beliefs to other soldiers through questions and discussion about these beliefs?

The only case I see Hall having is if he was legitimately denied a promotion on the basis of religious descrimination and not some other mitigating factor.

When the president states he make his choices by his religious belief hum This is becoming the next crusade and we alll no how that ended .

In this “thological” society, there is discrimination against people who do not believe in God. And I believe the military is no exception.

A reading of the Bible and the Old and New Testament does show there are many, many discrepancies. He was correct to question that and form his own beliefs.

I believe there are probably many more in the military that share his views, but they cannot speak up for it would be detrimental to there well-being and military career.

I was an atheist in the army for 5 years and while I was never the target of death-threats, it certainly was a somewhat hostile work environment.
There weren’t threats, but warnings, many warnings that I was going to hell, lots of fire and brimstone talk. Leaders sometimes attempted to incorporate religion into missions. I recall in Kuwait, the night before our convoy was to enter Iraq, the Division Commander gave a little speech in which he commented that we were going north ‘to do God’s work’. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t talking about Allah. I also remember before a mission in country the company chaplain saying that it was our duty to spread Christianity in the country (Iraq, of course).
It is also a little tricky being forced to stand in formations while a chaplain leads a prayer. Everyone stands with their heads bowed and hands together. I usually obliged out of respect, but occassionally, when I felt the chaplain was going beyond a general prayer and began prostalitizing, I would stand at attention. That will get you alot of ugly looks for a long time.
Then of course there is basic training where every sunday you can choose to either go to church or stay behind and clean the barracks. You can go to any religious service you want mind you, but abstaining means you get to do a little extra work.
So yeah, atheists get a little bit of a bum deal in the army. But so do others: liberals, homosexuals, and intellectuals,mainly. On the good side, the army is probably the place most free of racism I have ever seen, and not in a politically correct, let’s dance around with euphamisms kind of way, but in a real, substantive fashion.
So, in the end, its a mixed bag.

The entire US government discriminates against non-Christians, why should the military be any different?

Hi Randi and AC,

Thanks for being brave enough to do this story. I just saw the advertisement on CNN and I am looking forward to watching the show tonight. I served in the Army as a closet-atheist and closet-vegetarian from 1993-1998.

It was my experience that the Army is undeniably a carnivorous, Christian organization. I was extremely careful about discussing my religious and dietary choices, because they were clearly unacceptable.

I have no doubt that this soldier experienced the death threats and lack of promotions mentioned in the trailer. I always thought, how ironic it was that we took an oath to protect religious freedom, yet my choice as an atheist, was ridiculed and rejected from the day I entered basic training until the day I left the military.

Isn’t it ironic, he has to fight from within to get what the military is supposed to be delivering to others? How dare an officer tell him to leave a table at Thanksgiving! We should all be thankful, year round, we have the right (and the obligation) to speak what we believe and don’t believe. – A message to Mr. Hall: you may not want it, but I will pray for safety and your rights. Isn’t it ironic?

that’s an isolated fact. I know guys who have been deployed to Iraq and they have never had this kind of problem. of course it has to be investigated and, if someone is found guilty, has got to be punished. but let’s not over react to the point of judging the whole army because of that.

I have met many people from the Armed Services. I don’t want to be disrespectful but many believe that “their God is the Awesome God” for them and only meant to bless those in the US Armed Services who are Christians and believe in God the way they do. I have met many from the armed Services who are almost crazed with dillusions that God wants them to fight for his needs while in the army. Like our president, GWB, who believes that God told him to go into Iraq, there are many who would follow our present president into battle thinking they were going to usher in the second coming of a Messiah like being. They actually believe they are fighting for Armagedon to begin. I dare say that as a Christian I do not believe in their ideals in “power and might are right” and do not necessarily hold the conviction that only Christians get to heaven. There are many paths to enlightenment. Christianity is not the only path. We also have from what I have seen, too many people who need more education before they go to and while in the military. It is very sad to think that this young man (Hall) giving his life for country cannot be regarded in the same manner because he is Atheist in his beliefs. We are all a part of the same family here on this earth….we are all related back to our ancestors who came out of the African continent. Surely we need to learn to respect people on a better plane than we are doing these days. Since Ronald Regan, George Bush (Sr) and this guy who is in the White House, there is a feeling by some Chistian Fundamentalists that everything has to be done according and in line with what they believe. I am sorry our present administration has been hijacked by the Christian Right! They are Christian Wrong! Christ’s message was plain, pure and simple: “Love one another as I have loved you” That was his mandatuum, his commandment. Good luck to Mr. Hall no matter what he believes. I will be pleased when Mr. Bush and the Christian Right are gone from the Political Horizon once and for all.

I am not surprised by this man’s ordeal. But one must remember, most young men in the army are not college educated. That means they have not had the opportunity to critically think about their reliance on or support of their supernatural beliefs.

Being in harms way in the military by it’s very nature is terrifying. Having a belief in the supernatural can have a calming effect like salve on a wound in such circumstances. So you can see why many in the military may fear Hall — because he represents a crack in their belief system which is helping them cope.

In the long run, while Hall is very courageous for going forward with this lawsuit, it will take many more soldiers to complain and eventually force the military to guarantee religious freedom, just like it took a long time to allow women to join.

Keep up the good fight Army Specialist Jeremy Hall!

My brother and I both currently serve in the Army. My brother has been an Atheist for many years now and has never expereinced any negative action from peers or soldiers senior to him. I am a christian soldier who is not in anyway concerned about what faith or lack of, that a soldier may have. Most soldiers would probobly agree that in peace time and in combat the only measure of a soldier is his or her ability to perform the job. The military is so socialy diverse by it’s nature that I am surprised that the issue was not addressed by his leadership. As members of the military we annually go through sexual, racial and religous exceptance training. I assume this soldier has poor leadership in his unit and some less than excepting peers. Any leader if brought to their attention would quickly address this soldiers concerns, not only because it is their duty to do so but becasue it is morally correct.

This is classic Christian/religious hypocricy. This mentality only strengthens the agnostic in us all, and pushes many to atheism, as it reveals the weak minds/wills of believers. They can’t even be in the presence of someone who does not believe in their invisible friends, because it reminds them how wrong they are, so they must lash out, like the animals they are.
They are no worse than the fundementalist Muslims that they hate.
My heart goes out to this brave soldier, who is the only hero in the bunch. The others are just dogs living out their primate pack animal chemical commands. Evolve monkeys evolve!
We should all be grateful to this true American. Jeremy Hall stand strong, you are fighting the highest war.

My husband and I see this every day in our local military. Not only is it a problem to be Atheist or a different religion from Christian… if you are an outed Liberal, tempers fly. Fundamentalist Christian Conservatives have flooded our military to the point where it is scary to think for yourself or have any beliefs that differ.

I am a Christian…by definition, a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus taught that love: is patient and kind, is not rude, does not seek it’s own way, is not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs, does not delight in evil,rejoices in the truth, always protects, trusts, hopes,perseveres and never fails.
If Jeremy Hall was denied a promotion because of his beliefs…that was wrong. If his life was threatened because of his beliefs…that was wrong. If the Military discriminates against non-Christians that is wrong. Hall is entitled to the same rights and freedoms as all Military personnel regardless of their personal beliefs.
In my opinion, only fanatics or extremists would act in such a disreputable way under the guise of Christianity.
EVERY Soldier,whether Athiest or Christian, needs to be commended for laying down his or her life for the lives of others. Yay Jeremy!

This country was not founded on Christian principles.

Our military has been moving in this very dangerous direction ever since GW Bush became president. As a Christian myself, I do not believe in pushing my beliefs upon another person or another country. There are many many religious beliefs – and our forefathers had the foresight to know that. They were pretty smart!! The only time it is bad to hold our Christian belief is when we demand others to believe like we do. Religion of any kind is personal.

For so many Americans to listen and actually believe the Rush Limbaughs and Karl Roves and to their “religious” antics is so very very sad. We have dwindled down to being just like the Crusades in the Middle Ages – and we all know how absolutely DUMB those were!!!!

God, Allah, Jehovah – please help us to respect our brothers and sisters and all living creatures on this planet!!! Imagine . . . . .

It’s amazing that we continue to push the beliefs of Christianity on others while considering many equally unprovable religions as cults or simply incorrect. We brainwash children into believing this from such a young age that they never really have an opportunity to make a decision for themselves. Yes I said it- BRAINWASH.

If I told a child from age one that a giant alien craft came down and created 10 kinds of intelligent animals who all fought it out for 1000 years before human beings won and became the dominant species of this planet wouldn’t people think my child was nuts? He would certainly believe it since those would be what he kjnew to be true. Is that any less likely than Jesus being the son of God and rising from the dead? Has anyone ever seen anything rise from the dead before? Just because lots of people believe in something does not mean it is real.

Coming from a college campus in New Orleans it’s remarkably to see the religious correlations between being educated and wealthy or non-educated and poor. I’m pretty sure you all can discern who believes in what.

The army is comprised almost entirely of lower and middle class kids who need to find something to get them through the incredibly troubling times that they face every day. Throughout my experiences I’ve found that those who have struggled the most have generally been more likely to turn to a higher power for guidance. AA, the army and prison all stress religious belief as a way of life.

It must be hard to be in the army. It must be harder to make an thught out conscious decision and get threatened for not believing what you are told is right. GO JEREMY HALL!

Having experience with this, I can tell you that religious prejudice & discrimination, and suggested practice, and even imposition is alive and well in the US Military.

Though, the DOD has taken great measures in trying to prevent this; it is simply a widespread cultural problem that has never been contained; has in many ways actually helped provide psychological support for the majority of personnel; yet because is left unchecked, flies in the face of our constitutionally protected rights of free speech and inherent freedom of religion.

At it’s core, this has stemmed from a problem of culture within our military, IMHO.

And absolutely not, the military, the function of going to war to protect one’s homeland/country; should not be a place where religious proselytizing is allowed.

But again, we let recruiters use our schools as recruiting stations… so it only makes sense that some of these same people are abusing their positions to impose their belief systems on those around them on the battlefield.

This is not right.

This is just another example of how the Bush administration is pushing Christianity down our throats. This reminds me of his so called faith based initiatives.

“However, we are to be reminded that this country was founded on christian principles, so to restrict observers of their faith in Jesus would be very wrong.”..excuse me, but the majority of our founding fathers were DIESTS and not Christians..Thomas Jefferson felt Christianity was a three-headed monster…most Americans are clueless…lets get real people …this country was founded by people leaving religious persecution…its all starting over again…I wish Americans would open a book sometime in their life and not just the Bible…

I don’t think this issue is about freedom of religion, but more like an attack at Christianity. Everybody has it’s own agenda and cases like this are enhance to weakens the christian faith.

In my experience prior to retirement from the military, there was some proselytizing taking place. The greatest offenders were the fundamentalist or the so-called born agains. If a person wanted to hold a bible study session at my unit, it was done after working hours, away from the work space and was not part of regular conversation outside the study area. I also observed what I felt to be a major uptic in religious observance during and since VN. Leaders can and should control how and where the information is shared, those not wanting to participate could op out w/o fear of repercussions. If the situation with the young Pfc occured as described, the officer or NCO was wrong. However, in the age of victims, we have lost a lot in where non-denominational prayer could be offered- sporting events, at the start of the school day, etc. If the pentagon doesn’t believe events like this occur, they are hiding their collective heads in the sand. Just like the 3 monkeys-see no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.

If this guy is getting death threats, I doubt it’s just because he’s an atheist and more likely that he’s preaching his beliefs and being condescending towards those that do believe. I know the type, and they’re annoying. It’s just as bad to be an atheist and preach it to others as it is to be a fundamentalist and do the same thing. Maybe he needs to get off his high horse and be more tolerant of those that do believe. I find it hard to believe people want to kill him for his beliefs. More likely, it’s because he’s an ass.

He has a right to believe in anything he wants to even if it’s just himself. They shouldn’t discriminate against him, he has his freedom of religion.

“Prayers endorsed/let by officers should not be allowed.”
- by Dan, posted on July 7th, 2008 3:27 pm ET

I couldn’t disagree more! That’s why we have Chaplains at the military, as well as in the police. Soldiers, officers, they need all kind of support, including spiritual one (for the believers, of course). Chaplains are officers who not just “endorse” or “let” people pray: they conduct prayers, they provide spiritual support for those in need, Christians or not!! Again: if this soldier suffered any kind of persecution because of his atheism, then this should be investigated and the responsibles for that, punished. Period. But lets not condemn Chaplains for their work in the military.

Want to see this in action? Just read the post by Lee Collins. How ignorant and frightening. He actual wrote, “Who does he think has keep him alive in the war.”. I would ask Mr. Collins, who has kept the enemy alive in the war then? And by his faulty logic then the soldiers who have died were NOT kept alive by Jesus. This circular logic is too pervasive in this country. Use your brain people.

Another example of religious bigotry. The majority of religious people do not expect everyone to believe as they do. However, there are unfortunately a significant number of the religious who go beyond rightfully expressing and acting on their believes and feel it neccessary to oppress and even hate those that are different. For Christians, it is an amazing response to Jesus and his divine guidance of love and treating everyone as you would like to be treated. Fundamentalism and fanaticism is the same abberation, whether it emanates from a Muslim, Christian, or atheistic believe system.

So sad, so sad.
The USA and Canada have given away everything our countries were founded on. Our forefathers escaped other countries so they would be free to practice Christian beliefs.
And we sit idly back on our fat butts and let every other foreigner and immigrant enter our countries and take over our way of life. And now an Athiest wants special rights! Sorry to burst your bubble but athieism ISN’T a religion. You don’t get special rights. If you want to be an athiest (which by the way means you believe in NOTHING, not just God) then I say, good for you, but don’t you DARE oppose my right to practice what my forefathers fought and died for!
Just try practicing Christianity in China or Iraq etc and see what it gets you!! Yet every day, people from those countries crowd into North America and expect to be able to practice their religions freely, and guess what, we let them. Because we are a bunch of pansy assed losers who stopped fighting for our countries and what we were origianlly founded on! I say if you want to practice your religion, go back to your country and do so! And let the rest of us get back to the intent of our forefathers!

Soldiers in the past have died for the freedoms we so richly use. Some of those solidiers were atheists, some were not. Religious freedom allows for folks to believe in whatever they want and are free to change it whenever they want. This story seems a little fishy to me, seeing as how most Christians I know aren’t so hate-filled as this article seems to suggest. But, for the sake of argument, let’s say everything is correct.

The only problem here is the promotion — which should not have relied on religious beliefs. If that is the case, the military needs some fixing up. But as for the incident at the table and all that, those who do believe in God should be allowed to discuss freely with one another, just like atheists are free to discuss with one another.

I have a very hard time with any person who does not allow for ideas and ways of life other than their own. Our country was founded with freedom of religion as one of its basic rights. I am constantly amazed at the number of people who proudly claim to be American but are angry if you do not believe exactly as they believe. How can those protecting that right tread all over it?!?
After 9/11 there was a small gathering to pay our respects to all those who died. The lady leading the prayer hoped that “they all found Jesus in time”. In my opinion, this was very disrespectful to all the non-Christians who died and to those who participated in the gathering.
I am responsible for all of the hurt and disappointment I have caused, my so called “sins”. No one else is obligated to carry that burden for me. And no one has the right to critisize me because I do not put that off on to Jesus.
Unlike Specialist Hall, I know that there is a Divine. (I do not say that “I beleive in God” since it makes him sound like Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny!) I just know there is a Divine based on personal experiences.
However, Specialist Hall, I honor your right to stand by your beliefs. As a one time atheist, I hope you leave the door open for discussion and for possible experiences of your own. You’ll be surprised how your points of view on many, many things can change with time!

To poster John Patterson, you are correct that this country was founded by Christians and they based some laws on Judeo/Christian principles. However, the fact that a group of Christians elected to add the separation of church and state to the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights is indisputable evidence that they were adamant that their religous beliefs should not govern the actions of others. Your comment (and the actions of the military leaders described in this article) ignore this truism.

How hypocritical of the soldiers condemning him for not being a Christian. The military is intended to fight for the rights of this country… one of the top rights is freedom of religion.

Being a long time believer, I have to say Jeremy Hall has totally been discriminated against. I applaud him for standing up for his non-religious beliefs. I’m ashamed of anyone that asked him to leave the table at Thanksgiving dinner or any dinner. I hope there was some other reason for his being denied any promotion. Hang tough Jeremy, you’re in the right. As a believer: I ask ANYONE to please PROVE to Jeremy there is a GOD. : ) I wont hold my breath.

@ PAUL FRANCIS: “Christians are called to share their faith freely and openly with non-believers, and to deny them that right is denying them their freedom of religion which is a constitutional right.” Well, we all know christians sometimes get out of hand, especially when nonbelievers want no part of “God”. While christians are told to share their faiths, the bible says to “kick the dust off your sandals and part” when someone refuses to listen. Jeremy was and is being treated very un-christianlike.

The fellow soldier that ask Mr. Hall if he believed in Jesus after his near-death experience,
For all the Christian soldiers in Iraq that lost their lives, believing in God that are now dead, now do YOU believe in Jesus?!
True Christians don’t force “religion/beliefs” onto people. Jesus didn’t use coersion, why should Christians/Christian organizations do so to non-believers?

Q: Should military members be allowed to proselytize?

A: Without hesitation. They are fighting for that right along with others. Should they be able to do it to the point of harrasment? No, but to deny them the right to talk about their faith or even try to convice others of the same would be to deny them the very rights they are fighting for and so many have already given their lives for.

Jason
[godtalkradio]

M Jones – Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you.

It’s unfortunate that Specialist Hall faced the kind of judgementalism he did, and even more unfortunate that such bigotry exists among the rank-and-file of the military in this day and age. In a situation where men and women are fighting for their lives, and depend entirely on the trust and rapport with their fellow soldiers to do so, even small seeds of malcontent can blossom into flowers of death when the pressure is on. Any kind of tension between the soliders should be dealt with in a way that is fair to each party involved, and that includes issues of religion and faith. However, open ostracization is destructive, shows of unacceptance are unacceptable. You don’t have to like your fellow soldiers for their beliefs, but you must respect and support them. That means settling such differences in a quiet and judicious way.

I was sin the military for 8 years and my story is not much different than this. I was a catholic prior to joining the service. In fact went to confirmation. After 2 years I made a decision that if there was a GOD that the stuff I saw happen to people would have been avoided. Especially with kids. I have it reaffirmed every day the media tells of a kid baking in a car because their mom needed to be at a bar at 8am in the morning in SoCal. So I had by dog tags changed and my records changed.
So this is where I differ from the current story. I never had one remark from anyone in my chain of command. I was in the Infantry and we very rarely talked about religion. We had some devout Christians in our unit but they were more of an outcast than I was. So I guess I’m saying this kid makes it a point to bring up his non-religion beliefs besides just tabling them. I still go to funerals and weddings for family members. I am even a god parent to both my Nice and Nephew. I just don’t pray or believe in God. I have high morals and beliefs on how my kids should be raised and how I treat others. I just don’t believe in God and no one questions me about it.

You gotta be some kind of stupid to believe in fairy tales, and invisible perverts flaoting around in the clouds, watching your every move. But that’s exactly what they want, a gullible nation ready to kill with the spread of a lie.

I get the impression we are there fighting for Oil and Israel. That makes it a Crusade. Are Crusades in our Constitution?

I haven’t seen this kind of discrimination in my military time, but I would not be surprised. Frankly, as an agnostic it’s irritating to have to hear the veiled or not so veiled spiritual sermons at military functions, or to participate in prayers in formations, but I just go through the motions which I’m sure some of my theist counterparts do as well. I prefer to thank my battle buddy, my training, etc, when things go right, and forget about playing the blame game all together, it’s much more effective.

I get really annoyed with people treating Atheism an alternate belief. it is not.

Religion is a blind faith belief, that defies all logic, in an undefined supernatural supreme being of some kind.

Atheism is a logical understanding that no real evidence exists to support any religion or supernatrual belief.

Personnally, I think a god is a wonderful idea, but that;s all it is, an idea, without a shred of evidence to support it.

As a Born again Believer, and as a USA citizen, and very proud to be both, I have much simpathy for this young man. Many Christian beliefs have been slowly taken away and denied in this country, as the right to pray in schools, (this is my right and my children and grandchildrens) the constant battle over the Pledge of Allegience and the Ten Commandments. Maybe this did happen with a few soldiers but I cannot believe that the whole military takes this stand. My son served in the US AirForce for 6 yrs and I never heard of anythng like this forcing someone to believe one way or another, and as far as sueing the military, good luck to you…especially in this case…maybe you need to get alone with someone who really knows about Gods word so as to explain things to you…I don’t even know you Mr. Hall, but I love you and I know God does…I will pray for your salvation. and thanks for serving our country, no matter what you believe in….May God Bless You whatever you decide to do….

How can a war-making organization call itself Christian? Jesus was against violenece of any kind.

This is in answer to John Patterson’s comment… Why do we keep hearing this nonsense about this country being founded on Christian principles? It’s time believers face it was not… the Pilgrims didn’t come to set their own religion, but running away from religion. If anything, this country was founded on freedom.

You want to talk about the Founding Fathers? Fine… Why did they make sure neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution have any references to these supposed “Christian Principles?” Well, because they were not Christians (something deemed an anachronism during the Enlightenment) but rather Deists, they “believed” in a nature god, not in the Christian God. Have you ever read about Jefferson’s Bible, where he removed all the supranatural passages? Do you know that “In God We Trust” is not the national motto (that would be “E Pluribus Unum”, “Of many, one”) and it was only added in the height of the Cold War, in the 1950s? That there was no Prayer Breakfast until about the same time?

The idea of the Christian God would have been laughed at by most of the Founding Fathers and yet people keep repeating the US were founded on Christian principles…

Read American history, read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, read the biographies of the Founding Fathers and tell me that this country was founded on Christian principles… it was NOT!

To correct John Patterson’s comment about this country being founded on Christian priciples…here is a quote from someone that truly knows what this country was founded on, Thomas Jefferson, the author of our constitution said this: “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.” -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814. Jefferson was also a self-declared atheist. Look it up.

This is an interesting article. I am a Christian and completely respect other people’s choices in whatever they choose to believe. It’s a shame this man was treated unfairly because of his choice to be an atheist. I do find it interesting that he does not complain about the atheists friends he met which caused him to re think his religion in the first place.

Everyone serving right now is making a tremendous sacrifice for this country, it is not right to chastise someone for believing differently than yourself. While I am sure there are policies in place to prevent this type of discrimination sometimes what is written on paper does not translate into real life.

I think people have a right to discuss religion and should be able to. But if you can not do it respectfully and leave it at the door when at the work place well maybe it shouldn’t be brought up at all.

When majority of our population is Christian, then majority of our army will be Christian too. Why hide the fact??? Why should we pretend that we are not a Christian nation?

When I read articles like this, how I long for the good old days when Thomas Jefferson advocated for the separation of church and state…..

Why file a lawsuit against the federal government for religious discrimination when you have no religion.

I just don’t understand the need of christians that everyone believe the same stories they do. In that sense they appear no different than fanaticaI muslims who demand the death of any who might insult their prophet. Essentially, it’s just ‘my way or the highway.’ I applaud Hall for having the courage not to believe and not to stand down when challenged. We actually need more men and women like him.

It’s a shame when myth becomes more important than reality – and even becomes reality.
Someone above commented “How can your ‘beliefs’ be discriminated against if you don’t have any?” It’ is what you believe that’s the issue. Jeremy Hall has beliefs – belief in truth based on empirical evidence rather than on ancient stories and prejudices and he has the courage to stand up for what is right in the face of peer pressure and hostility. If more people read the Bible with the same critical analysis they apply to other literature, there would be more Jeremy Halls.

To Larry – so you think threatening the life of a non-believer is okay?

If CNN wants to dig into the real story here it will reveal the true depths of systemic discrimination in many aspects of the US Military and the current administrations culture of advancement
How many Generals currently serving are non fundamentalist Christians?
please open this up CNN…
The US is a theocracy as much as the people they are fighting against
kudos to this young man…

d

As a former Christian evangelical and former Protestant minister, this story concerns me on several fronts. Mr. Hall is right to challenge an environment of coercion that is only the tip of the iceberg in the military. This is not about atheism. It is about what it means to be an intelligent American. Mr. Hall has been serving his country, and in stead of blindly following what he’s been taught, he learns to think for himself and make an important life choice. If people want religion, in the military or in the nation, everyone knows where to go. There are herds of preachers. But where does someone go to ask the hard and searching questions, where their choices and decisions will be respected? That’s not generally going to be in the military or, unfortunately, in many of our communities in this country.

Here is yet another reason why organized religion is becoming a menace in the United States. I’m not saying that religion is a terrible thing, not in the least, for some it’s a salvation…for others a guide, but for many, it’s nothing more than something that is more often now getting tied into the news and interfering in places that it really shouldn’t be. We have all questioned the religions of the world, and it’s hard to swallow for some. Singling out a person who doesn’t prescribe to the same flavor or life that you have isn’t right. The Constitution is supposed to protect the citizens of this country, as well as soliders, from having to endure in things of this nature. This is just another point of reference for us to take that the separation of church and state is not only important but necessary in protecting all of us from beign tormented and ostracized.

Well, so far all we’ve heard is one soldier’s story; we certainly cannot make any conclusions or judgements based upon what one soldier & one correspondent have to say.

To the previous poster, of course soldiers should feel free to sit anywhere they want, but Mr. Hall claims that he was kicked out of a table due to his beliefs.

That said, it is really a petty argument. Out of all Mr. Hall’s claims in the story, the only possible sticking point is the denial of promotion due to his atheism which would be difficult to prove in court. All the other examples are but unfortunate cases of rude behavior.

My personal experience as both a racial minority and an agnostic living in the bible belt is that as long as I kept quiet about my beliefs or lack there of I am able to function normally in life. Most of the Christians I’ve met are not overtly discrimatory but they do like to stick to their own and if you want to survive in this country and not burn bridges unfortunately the only viable option is to sit down and shut up.

We agnostics/atheists have to be thankful that we live in the present time and not 300 years ago where in Mr. Hall will not only get kicked out of the military but also will probably be burning at the stakes.

I believe that it was H. L. Mencken that so aptly advised: “religion is the greatest fomentor of hate the world has ever known”. Let’s hope that Specialist Hall is successful in his quest for justice.

During my time in the Army (2002-2006) I witnessed many events and circumstances very similar to what Spc. Hall described I had a couple of commanders who attempted to force the entire unit to attend church services. It is very common for chaplains to engage prosletizing by during mandatory, non-religious events such as the re-integration sessions troops go through after returning from combat.

I could list specific events all day long but I suppose one of the best overall examples would be the dog-tags issued to every member of the military. The last line is for religious preference. If you do not hold to one of the major religions the only choice availible is “No Preference.” I did indeed have a preference, a very strong one in fact. I had my own tags made at my own expense with “Atheist” on the bottom line.

i find this story very credible, i went through some unpleasantness with Xians in my basic training unit. i felt threatened on several occasions. i went to Buddhist and Xian services to get out of doing chores or being bored. You don’t want to be singled out or feel alienated in such situations.

Somethings viewers of this show should realize: One’s religion/beliefs are NOT a choice. You can choose to go to church, but you can’t choose actually believe that someone is listening to your prayers. Your life experiences lead you toward or away from faith.

Hall WAS threatened. And he DID have a bodyguard. Stop denying just because it is unflattering of your religion. There are plenty of Xians who will threaten and carry out threats if you question their ridiculous beliefs. Having the audacity to not believe is enough to make them insecure.

Larry, atheists have beliefs, just not in gods. i, for one, believe in freedom of religion and speech. i should be able to not go to church and not be threatened for not doing so.

“Who does he think has keep him alive in the war? I can’t blame any of the other soldiers at all for their actions because mine would have been the same”. – Lee

His fellow soldiers, his body armor and his aim keep him alive.

If you are reading this and find my sarcasm offensive… well now you have a sense of what life is like for anyone in the US who isn’t Xian. But we don’t have as big a club to back us up. One sign you are a member of a privileged class is feeling threatened when someone outside your class asserts their rights or equality.

I too am Christian. During my 24 year stint I was not harassed, but I did remain quite wile others were practicing their religious ceromonies. I did not understand, but I also did not disturb. Its their believe, as I have mine.

Practise “Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.”

I read that somewhere……

I was in the Air Force and came across several atheists, Wiccans, and other non-Christian beliefs. I never encountered any significant discrimination among military individuals. I don’t doubt this guy’s assertion that on a few occasions, someone made a comment to him about God or Jesus, but it’s a stretch to say that he was denied a promotion because he’s an atheist. Also, if you are at a table and make a big point about refusing to pray to “supernatural beliefs”, well, I imagine that someone might ask you to sit somewhere else, especially if you’re deployed and tension is high. I’m not particularly religious myself, but I keep my beliefs within, and I’m not offended by what other people want to believe. This guy could have done himself a big favor by keeping his mouth shut. Maybe Christians thought he was discriminating against THEM when he disrespected their dinner prayers.

This is NOT the norm!!!!! My husband has people of all religions as well as atheiests and agnostics in his squadron. He has for 18 years now. There is more acceptance of personal beliefs than every before!! Our troops are made to sound like ultra Christian homophobes. Give these men and women more credit. Just as in society, there are a few bad apples. The commands do not recruit you to be a Christian nor do they look down on you if you aren’t. They have SO many other things to worry about!!!

Those who believe in this “religious tolerance” stuff are only kidding themselves. If someone does not want to eat with you for whatever reason they decide not to eat with you, then will you force them?

So someone asked him if he believed in Jesus. So what? Grow up.

It’s interesting that the same people who condemn open expression of Christianity are dumb silent when it comes to taxpayer subsidized radical islamic schools. They don’t seem to object to religious expression in that venue.

Anyone who is NOT Christian is never challenged on their open condemnation of Christianity via their own religions, or via atheism.

What has become acceptable is silencing Christianity.

Is it really a suprise, in a war that currently seems to have a such a religious (Christian vs. Muslim) base that our red, white and blue is affected by the cross?

What a shame – and an embarrasment for the US armed forces that have put their lives and views to the side – to fight a war that as of recent appears to be little more than a vendetta started by a slight of hand.

I’m still unsure how we refuse to learn how much violence religious views cause in the world today. How many complications – how many undue deaths.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

I believe the War was named “Iraqui Freedom”, yet we are unable to excercise that same freedom as citiznes of our country. America preaches freedom in all aspects, but only if we excersice it they way the government wants you to. Will we ever learn to let others be the way they want, even if we don’t agree with them? This soldier was used and now he is being disposed of, marked as no longer wanted. They took what they wanted of him but once he didn’t agree he is being dumped.

I am an American Soldier with 27 years of service. I am not a religious person, and my dog tags say No Preference. I have never been exposed to any kind of religious discrimination, but then I have never put myself out there as non-religious.

My experience is that religion is present and practiced, but not forced. Most ‘events’ like dinners, ceremonies, etc., have a chaplain or assistant offering an invocation and benediction, which I have always perceived as non-denominational. Reference is made to God, but no more than that. Each person will get from it what they choose. For me, I tend to look around and see the various practices of others, be it bowing their heads, praying, making the sign of the cross, or looking around like me.

It is against the principles and regulations of the military to overtly try and push or require religion from anyone. That being said, individuals may not always follow those rules, and they deserve to be disciplined if their behavior is offensive to anyone. This should be the same as any other behavior that is offensive to someone, be it through speech or action. The discipline can be as simple as telling the person that their behavior is unacceptable, or as far reaching as prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

One of the interesting aspects was the reference to a violation of his First Amendment rights. Soldiers do not have First Amendment rights! They only have the rights granted to them by law and regulations.

Roger:

Mencken was incorrect in his assesment.
It should be:
“Human beings are the greatest fomentor of hate the world has ever known.”

I think I speak for just about everyone when I say that no soldier, or American for that matter, should be discriminated against for their faith or lack of faith.

I also think it is silly to expect the Military not to have a strong Christian influence. Last time I checked, Christians make up the majority of the Military population. I am not saying that this gives Christians in the Military the right to do whatever they want to do, but I think the strict philosophy of separation of church and state in the midst of an environment where young men and women are putting their lives up for others is simply foolish.

For many, faith is something that makes up the very core of our lives. And while discrimination should be harshly punished, we should never create an environment where the core values of faith can not be practiced. Even when that faith happens to be classified as the majority.

Let’s see……. Religions and the military……… Kill, Kill….HMMM!
Since time started to say the least!!
One would think atheism would be a road for promotion!!

I think this is mostly likely a frivolous lawsuit. I don’t think he was forced to participate in religious activities and believe in God.

Everyone has passionate beliefs that are going to differ from others. Do you think that if they were all atheists and there was a Christian in the mix it would be different? I Think Not.

People’s beliefs have been joked about and challenged for years. God/No God, War/No War, Giants/Eagles, Coke/Pepsi.

Shouldn’t all people passionately believe something?

Stop being so sensitive…..

When I enlisted in the military in 1968, my beliefs could best be described as Christian. The military was, from my perspective, very fair about religion, and Christianity was encouraged but not pushed at my lowly level. They needed happy people at the bottom. Over 34 years, I progressed in rank and responsibility. I could tell that the Christian belief was pushed more and more the higher I got in rank and responsibility. I especially noticed the increase in pressure when I became an officer. The military was feeling less and less comfortable to me for this reason. I also started to notice that my advancement was less and less sure, no matter how good my job performance was. At one point, I could tell that not only was I not going to get promoted, but that they wanted to get rid of me. Even until the time I retired, I was still exploring faith. My big problem was that I did not attend church or openly profess my faith. While my peers were going into my boss’s office to pray behind closed doors, I remained in my cubicle. The feeling that you are serving in the military of a foreign country becomes very strong when you realize you are not wanted.

Since my retirement, I have had the leisure to study many aspects of the religious argument. I have come to the conclusion that nobody now and nobody before our time has ever had enough information to prove or disprove the existence of God, much less to define God, even less to determine the will of God, other than as science has provided us clues.

I do not to classify myself as an agnostic. I don’t like the term, although it makes a lot of sense as a definition of a person who does not know and knows that he does not know. I think the term carries some baggage in that it is interpreted as also carrying doubt. I have no doubt, except maybe that I doubt that anybody at all in the world actually understands the mind of God, even in a small way. I simply have arrived at the conclusion that the question of God is unknowable at this time and that we would better spend our time trying to solve the problems that plague humanity on our own.

I think that 90% of all of humanity’s problems can be solved by us. We can learn to deal with the other 10% better if we are honest about what we know and do not know.

trsgrv said: “What has become acceptable is silencing Christianity.”

Good point and very true.

I believe that this story made the news, because most journalists are atheists. For instance, what is it that makes Jeremy Hall a remarkable young man?

I have one thing to say regarding this matter:

“When you understand why you reject all other Gods, you will understand why I reject yours as well.”

Oh, Please! None of you can possibly, seriously believe this story to be true! In this “new age” era of persecuting Christians for speaking up and out (as evidenced by many of the comments here) do you really believe this soldier was persecuted by the government for following the crowd? Really?

Personaly, I do not believe there is any such thing as an atheist. Someone who claims to disbelieve in God is just making an issue out of nothing, an excuse to make noise. Let’s see if I can follow this argument, ” I do not believe God exists, therefore I am going to spend my life loudly claiming His non-existence”! Have any of you EVER met a quiet atheist? Puh-lease!

I have no doubt that this soldier is suffering from some level of non-conformity and that his bunkees are suffering from him, but that he is being persecuted for being an atheist? Not likely!

Paul Francis – you say “Sounds to me like the soldier was initially “proselytized” by other atheists in the army” but the article says “after his first tour of duty, he met some friends who were atheist and decided to read the Bible again”. There is a big difference.

Presumably his “friends” were people he freely chose to associate with, not part of his Army unit. Anyone can share their faith openly and honestly, but they cannot discriminate against someone who does not agree with their beliefs. That right is at the core of what we believe in as a nation. And, by the way, that is not based on “Christian” principles, but the writings of Enlightenment philosophers.

Actually, hundreds of millions have been slaughtered via atheist governments (Hitler, Mao, and so on, while tens of thousands were murdered int he name of Christianity (witch hunts, Spanish Inquisition).

So people asked him if he believed in Jesus? So what? Grow up. So, should the 5 year old child was was told she couldn’t add her picture to the wall with the other 5 year olds because she wrote Jesus on her picture file a lawsuit?

The 5 year old I have compassion for. The grown man, I do not.

First off, this kind of behavior on the part of the military isn’t limited to the Army. The Navy suffers from the “Christianity is the only Way” mentality as well.

I was in the military’s substance abuse rehibilitation program for alchohol dependance. The SARP program I was run like boot camp. Open bay berthing, constant audio and video survailance (even in berthing), daily counciling sessions with military councilors, and manditory attendance at daily AA meetings. The program is based off of AA; and requires, as part of treatment, the patients to accept a “higher power”.

As an athiest, I don’t believe in God, Allah, luck, or any other type of dogma. When I was forced to explain my religious views, I was charged with non-compliance with the program. I was placed before a comittee and it was explained to me that my reason for being an alchoholic was because I didn’t have faith in god; and that in order to continue with the program I would have to adopt a belief in a higher power. I was told that without god, I could never be cured. I was ordered to comply with the program, and in order to do so, I would have to choose a “higher power”.

I told the members of the comittee that I would not adopt religion because they told me to, that I could not be ordered to believe in religion, and that I found it very disrespectful to have someone else try to dictate my beliefs to me.

I was discharged from the Navy two weeks later. Initially my discarge was to be “general under honorable conditions”, for “SARP failure”. When I made the comment that my discharge was for religious reasons, and that I planned to sue for wrongful termination, the JAG officer and a few others took a quick trip to the confrence room. When they came back, my discharge was changed to an “Honorable Discharge”.

It’s almost a year later, and I have a good job, stable life, am not an alchoholic, and still an athiest.

So should the Christian families who are under attack from the non-Christians to remove the crosses from their family’s graves in Arlington Cemetery feel similarly preyed upon?

The US Military is INFACT a Christian Military. When I was 18 years old I signed up to become a Marine, I never did become a Marine because at the time I was still very “unruly” and when a high ranking officer “got in my face” during the physical screening process I walked out.

However, I did tell the Staff Sergent who was recruiting me that I did not believe in God. I explained my idea of what “God” is and told him I did not believe in organizaed religion because it is nothing more than a form of control. The Staff Sergent told me not to ever tell anyone my true beliefs about God and he then went on to describe what happens to people who do not believe in God. The Staff Sergent told me that when it was “lights out” I would definitely be targeted by other recruits.

From my very limited experience with the U.S. Military I can say without doubt that they are a Christian organization- whether or not the Military portreys itself in this manner to the public.

Best of luck to my friend with his lawsuit against the U.S. Military.

i’ve been in the military for 9 years now and i’ve found an overall acceptance of all beliefs in each of my chain of commands. i’ve never seen any thing like the claims this soldier is making. maybe he just wants to get out. there are better ways to get out though than blaim others for your lack of conformity. the military is an overall conforming way of life and conformity, not suppression is needed for the safety of each unit. good luck in getting out mr. hall!

My ancestors were among those who came to this nation to get away from sectarianism and war as ways of life. Some 130 years later they fought the Revolution, then drafted the Bill of Rights, in their certainty that people must have absolute freedom of conscience, including the complete freedom to believe in no supernatural forces.

It is absolutely clear that the “Founding Fathers” were nontheists–deists at best, but certainly not men who held puritanical, fundamentalist beliefs, and certainly not men who believed in any religious dogma, and certainly not men who would consider that to have a place in the conduct of American civil or political life.

Jefferson’s way of reading “the gospels” was with a pair of scissors. Washington refused to stay at church services through communion. And so on. This religious twisting of our nation’s freedom of conscience into some support for anti-American oppression is appalling, and my ancestors–including Tom Paine–cry out to all to save this nation from Christians and any other religious people who don’t understand the simple principle of ABSOLUTE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

I am also of of a long line of people who served this nation’s military, with honor and distinction, and am qualified for the DAR. I never joined that organization because they require belief in god, which I will not pretend to. It is anti-American.

This lawsuit is surprising, can he prove he was denied promotion due to his belifefs, I am sure there are a number of athiests in the US military… do they all feel the same way? If someone is so convinced that there is no God, why should they be swayed by other people’s comments.?, Individualistic comments are personal opinion only… and cannot be attributed to an organization or country for that matter!

Being a Catholic and raised in a non-christian country…I have often encountered such references… but never affected by them.

Best place to be to defend your self or faith, you have a weapon so people she be scared for their own life if felt being harrassed. Military is life and death free zone.

We are “asked” to pray before every mission and other ceremonies. A chaplain leads it. The chaplain’s always (in my experience) Christian. All the religious material he distributes is Christian (including some en español). He prays using non-specific terms but it’s all thinly veiled.
I enjoy arguing religion with the people in my platoon, and I do not say that there is institutionalized religious bigotry, but chaplains have to go. Let mental health professionals deal with soldiers’ mental health. I’ll pray or not pray on my own.

Should the Military be able to profess their beliefs in an open square environment? No. They should not. The military works as a single unit made up many individuals that function and interact as one unit. When religion becomes a factor then because of the war that we are in, annomoticites get stirred up. When the unit then is engaged in combat these individuals may take the chance to “liberate” their unit from the “undersireable’s”. This will cause breakdowns that will tear the unit apart and cause un-neccessary causlities, thus effecting the overall mission succes and goal of the unit.

Those that are doing the intimidating and harrassment of these military personel are not unlike the fundamentalist’s abroad, except they don’t or have not yet blown buildings up due to their fundamentalism.

Those that keep their faith to theirself and work as a single unit are the real military. The others are looking after theirself and have no regard for any other person.

If this continues to occur in the Military it will then spread back into the United States making this country a COE (Church of England) environment, which will cause more resentment for these individuals and possibly start w war here.

This is because Rumsfeld (defered five times) was only looking out for his own personal interest’s while in the defense department.

I were the SoD I would summarily discharge any person’s engaged in this activity and put them on a potential terrorist watch list.

I do not beleive this. My husband has been a soldier for over 10 years. We have been through numerous deployments the military, though harsh (it does take more than hugs and deep conversations to protect our freedom) has ALWAYS displayed tolerance. I think many poople in today’s society, whine, A LOT. Personal I am tired of it. This soldier feels he is being discriminated against, well I am sorry he feels that way but honestly he is a soldier and should start acting like one. It sounds like he wants out of the military, I think the Army should cut their losses and let him go. I wouldnt want him in combat with my husband. Wheather you believe in God or not should not have a bearing on wheter you are a good soldier or not, it sounds like this man is the latter. I am proud of being an Army wife and I am dissapointed so many on this page are submitting comments agains the very people who protect thier freedoms, shame on you.

I was in the Army. Please, if you were in the service but it was not recent, do not assume that the way things were is the way things are. They are absolutely not, in regards to this particular story especially.

Also, a lot of commenters are making judgments already and the story has not even run yet. This is a disturbing trend of pre-judgment and is unfair to the story and all of those involved.

Do some homework before the show on your own. Check out the web site for the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. The great deal of current information there is absolutely shocking and should disturb everyone, since it involves a weakening of our armed services from within.

If the (excuse the term) “generic” prayers and practices of the military’s chaplains and officers were the same today as they were when I was in the service, then the MRFF would not exist.

Unfortunately that is not the case, and it is a direct result of the lack of moral leadership from the very top, which has been replaced by the much more profitable, new version of hypocritical “kill them all before they kill us” American Christianity (”We’re in a war for the moral soul of America”, “Take back America for Jesus”, etc.).

By the way, the marine did not ask for a bodyguard, the military assigned him one, and they would not waste the manpower if they did not have evidence of a credible threat.

I also don’t think this is a waste of time, since the mission should be to perform the mission, and the military’s mission has nothing to do with religion (unless you’re a chaplain). If this is the tip of an iceberg, and I believe it is, then this show will be many people’s first introduction to the fact that we do have a problem here.

As most posters here have said, this is a nation of many religions, and no religion has any right to coerce any citizen to obey the standards or practices of that religion. All members of the military are covered by the Uniform Code of Military Conduct, and the First Amendment right of freedom of religion and from religion (to use the modern description) is included in that Code, as the Pentagon official stated in the description of this show.

Every time this issue comes up some try to misportray it as a situation where someone is trying to prevent someone else from praying. That is not the issue! The issue is that those in the military who don’t believe are routinely subjected to prayers, claims that in order to be a leader you have to be a spiritual person, etc. To those who are doing so, stop changing the issue. Hats off to Specialist Hall and Mikey Weinstein.

No wonder so few Jews join the U.S. military!

Atheists have beliefs? Well I guess that they probably don’t all have the same beliefs, just as not all Xians hold the same beliefs. Myself, I’m Buddhist; more of a spiritual philosophy than an organized religion and even we do not all share the same philosophies.

How much of the Civil Rights movement was a Religious Rights movement, since the leaders were/are tied to the church? Could an african-american atheist find a place in the 60’s?

My lifestyle and my religion encourages me to allow all others to believe as they may. My religion does encourage helping others to find truth, but never forcing others and especially not persecuting them for their beliefs.
I personally don’t understand why an athiest would ever risk his life. It doesn’t make sense to me. I’d hold on to every minute and second I had if I believed that it was all just going to end.
I am sure that many jews, muslims, mormons, or jehovah’s witnesses have been persecuted in the military, it just doesn’t show up on CNN because the athiest and the homosexual have become CNN’s symbol of mainstream America.

Randi:
There is a reformation going on within the Christian faith in America and this young generation is piloting the change. For too long the Right Wing has used the Christian faith as a tool for fear and power. Jeremy Hall is only one incident where the freedom of religion has been abused as a source of power for fundamentalist Christianity.

Please remember the Christian Right does not speak for all Christians. Fundamentalism has its own agenda and doesn’t really have anything to do with the true meaning of Christianity.

Televangelists and self-assigned religious leaders are not the leaders of Christianity. The insanity of manipulating wedge issues (i.e. homosexuality, abortion, stem cell, etc.) has turned away many young people because of the hypocrisy of what the fundamentalist think are modern day prophets.

Mr. Hall: Please understand the majority of Christians believe you have the right to practice whatever you chose even within the military. Good luck with your suit.

Like the old saying goes,”There are no Atheist in fox holes”. Well we now know what that really meant. Christian’s don’t want them there or anywhere it seems. I am a American and I do believe there is NO god so I guess I am a Atheist. I love this country and believe it is still the best in the world. But when I hear stories like this I question how long we will remain the best. We are becoming a country of hypocrites and fools. We are no longer a Democracy but a Idiocracy. When faith is king there is no place for reason. A war without reason is a unwinable war and a war of fools. George W Bush is the commander and chef of these fools that believe that you must believe in an all loving God to be able to pick up a gun a kill another human being that does not believe in your god or in any god. I know many Christians that if they had a chance would kill a Atheist in the name of their God. But I have never came across a Atheist that would kill a Christian or any other human because they do believe in a God.

All I can say is”Dear God, Please save me from your followers”.

AMEN!

As much as one might think that its not true, it is.
The military says its one way but its more often than not its quite the other.

Its kinda hard not to be discriminated against when you are in the minority on anything. My experience was the same. After 6 years in the service I learned that even in the NCO ranks there is a mentality that will quickly single you at as a heathen, pagan and even worst a non-conformist that doesn’t care about his brothers if you make it known that you are not a Christian and and in particular don’t believe the same way.
Yep, you don’t want think it isn’t true but its best to just keep your mouth shut if you want to survive much less thrive as a servicemen.
There is little room for intellectual discussion on anything as a Soldier.
There is an old saying in the Service, “Let you be the one”
And You Don’t.

While Soldiers do give up every right they have as civilians they are Protected and Punished under the UCMJ. However, this does not afford them any protection whatsoever until an investigation is completed and a ruling is made. They can also be punished as Civilians under local law as well as the UCMJ.
A Soldier must always face double jeopardy in more ways than one.

Serioulsy Lee Collins? Do you think that an atheist’s view would get you blown up in Iraq…that God would allow your death due to this man’s disbelief? It seems to be a true christian would sit with an outcast, including an atheist, in true jesus-like fashion. You sound so angry and bitter. Its great to have a strong faith, but out of step to be so intolerant of others..its not political correctedness, its in line with Jesus’ teachings..whom you seemingly claim to follow.

i agree that this soldier has a right to believe or not believe whatever he wants, but he seems like a bit of cry baby to make such a stink about it.

Anyone – military or not – should be able to practice whatever religion they chose as long as they are not harming someone else (such as 14 yr. old girls.) To say that if you are an American, you must be a Christian because the USA was founded by Christians is a misstatement of facts. Look up information on William Penn and Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson even had his “own Bible” in which he edited out those verses he did not believe. William Penn took the practice of freedom FROM religion very seriously. That’s the very reason so many early immigrants came to this place, which was to become the US of A. They were fleeing countries which MANDATED the religion one had to believe!

The US military should be the LAST place a US citizen should have to encounter religious persecution!

to John Patterson,
you have no idea what you are talking about. If you read the Tripoli Doctrine, it very plainly states that this country was NOT found on Christian principles. Quite the opposite. A good portion of our founding fathers did not hold themselves as Christians.

“was founded on christian principles”

If I had a nickel every time some religious nut said that….

No it wasn’t… it was founded on principles of religious tolerance and freedom of religion.

So if I want to be a pagan I can….

@Arachnae To Larry – so you think threatening the life of a non-believer is okay?

Did I say that? All I’ve heard is that the soldier said he was; I’m just waiting for the proof that his life was threatened and by whom. BTW, I do not consider the threatening the life of anyone is okay.

Just like American public schools, the military is an extension of the American government, and as such, MUST maintain the separation of church and state. Requiring no support of one religion versus any other (or no religion at all) is something that the government has always stood upon, that is, until Bush et al came into office. It is a disturbing intrusion into the personal choice of all Americans when any government agency aligns itself with religion.

Ralph

Individual soldiers should be allowed to ‘proselytize’ colleagues just like Jehovah’s witnesses are allowed to knock on my door. Of course, the discussion is always short – and needless to say, I have not become a Jehovah’s witness. Likewise, proselytizing fundamentalists have to accept the ‘no – back off and do your job’ reply of their atheist and non-christian counterparts.

Sadly – that the Military has become an arm of fundamentalist “Christian” jihadism is no surprise under the theocratic administration of George W. Bush. Under the “leadership” of ‘W’ the worst President in modern American history our leadership in the world, as well as our cerebral fortitude as thinking citizens has been seriously corroded.

Sadly, we are more or less, a formerly great nation.

As an atheist, I can tell you it’s not easy to be open with it. Even out of the military. I put a bumper sticker on my car and people put gum on my car in the grocery store parking lot. Or spit on it. Or write horrible things in the dust. Or flip me off in traffic. Or yell at me in traffic. The feet are constantly removed from my Darwin fish to turn it back in to a regular fish. I had to take these things off of my car as I feared for the safety of my child. When my child tells people that I don’t believe in God, they feel the need to try to teach my child how to be religious, even though I’ve taught her all of those things myself in preparation for her to make up her own mind when she is of the proper age.
If it’s this hard to be an atheist in the real world, I can’t imagine being an open atheist in a testosterone-packed gun-toting military world. I’d fear for my life then, too.

This is why the Chinese constitution states; the freedom to practice any religion and the freedom to practice none. Our constitution fell drastically short here. But what could you expect from Christians who spend so much time as solicitors. Has a Buddhist ever knocked on your door saying the end of the world is coming and you must take Jesus as your savior to avert hell? As Nietzsche would say any Christian who didn’t become a priest, reverend or monk is completely intellectually incompetent; to risk eternal damnation for temporary comfort is a person who can’t count to three. And because of their stupidity doesn’t deserve any punishment that their Christianity promises.

I have to say I am impressed and surprised by the tolerant stance of most of the respondants here.

This soldier has shown a strength that most people will never know. What kind of selfless and noble person would put their life on the line for a nation that despises him?

To add a bit of perspective, Christians, Jews and Muslims may go into battle, content in the knowledge that if they die, they have another life, indeed a better life, ahead of them after death. This man wagered what he believes to be the only life he will ever have. Does that take courage? It definitely takes a lot more courage than I have, and certainly more courage than can be claimed by old rich men in air conditioned office buildings who create the plans to send primarily underprivileged young people halfway around the planet to die for what seems increasingly to be no good reason at all.

This is not just a military issue :-{ This persecution is everywhere. It is not always life threatening but has all the symptoms of racial bias and homophobia etc. Even if there are laws in place, freedom from religion simply is not tolerated in this country. Existing laws a are not enforced and sometimes blatantly ignored by people sworn to uphold these laws Like the president. His father was even quoted as saying atheist

If you do not pray with us you will be singled out and ostracized. They have words and phases and tricks like this and make it sound like a good thing when in fact they are persecuting and discriminating in their practice.

Religious Faith based groups are now able to discriminate legally and faith based groups receive favoritism and funding from government. The term faith based should be an immediate disqualifier for government funding. Faith based groups teach and practice discrimination and hate. It is amazing that any gay person would want to belong to an organization that actively persecutes them. The way the present a woman’s roll in society is in direct contradiction to Americana law. Yet our leaders ask god to bless America. I could go on all day with examples of why religion has absolutely no place in government.

If I had one wish it would be to protect children from religion until they were 25. just like they do with porn. Luckily we do not have religious hormones so this should rid the world this nonsense in a couple of generations. Now that’s one abstinence only program that would work. Oh ya, and please stop the war on science.

Tim said it best. Belief in a personal God is laughable. Read what Einstein had to say about organized religion. There is a sucker born every minute, amongst the religious 2 are born every minute!

I’m in the Army, and yes there are instances when Christianity does seem forced upon you. But, these instances are usually at formations for the changing of commanders, or when a high ranking person retires. This is the choice of the person that the formation is for, no matter their religion, they can choose to have an invocation to start the ceremony, or they can deny it. I can’t speak on what happened when SPC Hall was deployed, but I can speak on my experience. I work in a hospital, and like all hospitals, there is a non-denominational chapel inside. And the person in charge of the chapel is the chaplain, note here, that any religous leader; a preacher, a rabii, or whatever can be a chaplain. Every unit has a chaplain, but the purpose is not to force religion down the soldiers throats, the chaplains are used more for counseling, and guidance, wheter that be religous guidance or not. While it was a messed up situation for SPC Hall, and nothing like that should happen to anyone, no matter their beliefs. But in my experience, I can’t say that I’ve ever witnessed any religous persecution, and I do believe that the miltary is trying its best to prevent this.
My name is Brad, and I’m an agnostic.

Like so many labels today, the term “Christian” now carries huge baggage. Sad. I am a person of faith, however, I am not at all surprised that so many would reject religion altogether given that religion seems to justify the most horrendous atrocities. Notice I said “religion”…as opposed to faith. Religion is a human invention. Faith is not. Religion puts human attributes to God. Faith does not. I’ll take the honest doubter or non-believer over the self-righteous certainty of the so-called ‘Believer” any day of the week. That the military would use Christianity to rationalize its nationalistic violence should come as no surprise. Governments throughtout history have used religion to further its ends, which is why our founding fathers wrote the separation of church and state into our foundational document, the Constitution. Government and organized religion are oil and water.

Of course they don’t want atheists. Atheists, by definition, are unwilling to blindly surrender themselves without question, to alleged powers beyond their own control. Do I hear a “Sir, yes sir!” ???

To John Patterson: The US was NOT founded on Christianity, and repeating that falsehood over and over again will not make it so. The Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians. Also, you might want to read Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli. Read some history. Only one man, out of the 56 signers of the Declaration, was a practicing parson.

It’s this lie, constantly repeated that targets people who aren’t Christians in the US.

Freedom of religion meant to practice, or NOT, as one sees fit.

I’m glad to see him standing up for himself, and his right to believe what he chooses. Atheists are among the most distrusted and disliked people in America, and the only reason for that is that people have been taught to hate us by their own religious leaders (and frequently by the texts of their religions as well).

As an atheist, the utter hypocrisy of Americans never ceases to amaze me; we crow about what a wonderful free country we are, and how we accept everyone with open arms… unless they don’t believe in their God and Jesus. Then you better watch your back!

I don’t believe in gods. I don’t believe in an afterlife. I don’t push my beliefs on anyone; on the contrary, I fully support everyone’s right to decide for themselves what is real and important to them. I believe people make their own decisions and are responsible for their actions. I believe that everyone has a responsibility to their community and country to live a productive, constructive life, and to be a good person and do right by others. That is what being an atheist means to me: living a life free of supernatural obligation or influences and choosing of my own free will to be a good man. I wish Mr. Hall the best, and hope he goes on to live a great, fulfilling life the way he chooses to.

This is nothing new and it is NOT limited to the military. Ignorance and tolerance do not mix. If you are an atheist, people mistakenly assume that you worship the devil. We are living in the Dark Ages of American sensibility. For those who think that a Christian theocracy is not possible in America, think again!

Isn’t that the point of fighting in Iraq to preserve our freedoms, including religious freedom? O wait, I forgot – the war was about oil. Nevermind, carry on.

Religion has no place in the military, nor does it have any place in any aspect of our government.

I believe in fate and I believe everything happens for a reason ( a positive reason). Religion is a dangerous. It is little more than systematic brainwashing and has more to do with power and manipulation than it has to do with God, if at all.

Ministers (including military ministers) are little more than shepherd’s leading a flock around. A flock who can’t think for themselves because they are so bewildered, or afraid and insecure. Why do millions of so-called Christians continue to discriminate and judge and condemn people such as Army Specialist Jeremy Hall?

Christian extremists love to spread their will and the word of god anyway they can, even if it means degrading other people or religions. This is something that shouldn’t be tolerated. This is a group of people that thinks they are better than everyone else because of how they view god and the world around them.

This country was NOT based on Christian principles. That is an erroneous belief that has been expounded by the Christian right. Actually, this country is based on Roman-Greco law. In matter of fact, many of the founding fathers were not Christian; they were theists. Some of them did NOT believe Jesus was a God. Again, this country was NOT based on Christian principles

Look at these comments………….pretty obvious that this country is full of well meaning people. The politicians are only cardboard cut outs and have no real power to direct anything

Hall is a whiner…plain and simple…get over it. If he was good enough for promotion he would have gotten it no matter what his beliefs are. He’s playing up to all you civilian bleeding hearts and to other military members who can’t hack it. He will leave the military better than it is now…because he will be gone.

When people pray just bow your head and think of something that pleases YOU. Just RESPECT the fact that this nation was built on spritual belief and GOD is on our money. If that’s something you dont agree with there is other places in this world fo you to go. When in Rome do as the Romans…. Heard of that?

I believe the soldier when he says he has been discriminated against because he is atheist. Keeping your beliefs to yourself and being allowed to do that might solve a lot of problems – Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is a good motto for this problem. I’ve never regarded it as anyone’s business but my own what religious beliefs I may or may not hold.

Annie Kate
Birmingham AL

As a 20 year veteran I am appalled at the way he was treated.

I think it is a shame that the US Army ostracized anyone for their beliefs. For shame on anyone that agrees with the un-Christian way the Christians behaved.

i am an atheist and i believe his story i was raised in the church at a young age i realized that its all hogwash, so these army people should back off and allow Specialist Hall to believe whatever he wants to believe we have our First Amendment rights and you have the right to have faith or not to have faith its as simple as that!!!!! good luck specialist hall and know there are athiests out there who support you like me and there are millions of us!!!!!!

The oath up on entering the military, at least when I entered in 1969, was to “preserve, defend, and protect the constitution of the United States”. No where did it say anything about any religious view or book.

Unfortunately, neither candidate has the kahunas to stand up and tell all concerned, that either they put religion back in its box, or take it with them when they are removed from the service. These men and women are there to do a job, not to be harassed by the extreme right fundamentalist.

I served 20 years in the USMC. I am now retired and still have athiest stamped on my dogtags. Not one day did I face any problems from fellow Marines. Just do your job as you were trained too. Follow orders and earn the trust of the guy beside you. If you want to have problems, they will find you. As they say the squeaky wheel gets the greese. Well he is squeaking and now getting the attention he wants. Now, everyone around this soldier has to walk on egg shells because everything he will be asked to do or every order he is given will be reviewed as haraassment. What ever happened to do what your told to do and keep your mouth shut, just follow orders. If you can’t take the heat get out of the fire or simply get out of the Army! Sounds like someone wants some money or just wants to write a book or make a movie and make some money.

Its a fact. Atheists have to operate in the shadows of this country. Christians are free to talk shop any time they like. This country pays lip service to freedom of religion. It does not have it because the majority does not want it.

it is not right that the solider who was being threatened for being a atheist ,in this country we have complete freedom of religion and no one should be threatened or denied promotion because of it.i disagree with the young mans views but he has every right to believe as he does,if you don’t believe that read the u.s. constitution

Wow… a soldier fighting for “Freedom” is denied his right to be an atheist. This is typical of the so-called “Christians” we encounter today. I’ve even heard that some churches participating in the faith-based initiative illegally started by the Bush Administration years ago will deny people services if they don’t see them in church. Talk about proselytizing with a carrot… a carrot paid for by all tax payers. I’m sure Jesus would have done the same thing… NOT!

When I was in the military Christianity was strongly encouraged as many people have said in the various comments. This is a culture thing and not just military. At work I have a born again christian and a fundamentalist latter day saint. One used to leave me the “good news” pamphlets but finally got the hint after several months of me just throwing them in the trash. The FLDS is now doing the same by leaving me reading material on my desk. I cannot bring myself to believe in magical things like unicorns, gods, monsters, aliens, nor ghost. I am pretty sure if I left church of Satan pamphlets on their desk that there would be a major uproar and i would likely be fired or at least severely reprimanded.

This does not surprise me one bit. America is behind other Western countries in terms of separation of church and state. Only there during a presidential election must a candidate demonstrate religious worthiness in order to be elected, i.e. George Bush. Consider what would happen if a candidate stated they are not religious and instead relied on ethics, education, and common sense to make decisions – I would say they wouldn’t even come close to being elected and it is ironic that the enemy the U.S. are fighting are also religious fundamentalist.

I guess we’ll have to wait and see whose “god” wins.

Saroop Nagra (happy atheist) – Canada

A god-based military has no place in the United States of America. Keep your gods to yourself and do your job. I support Jeremy Hall’s lawsuit in its entirety.

Let him stand before a fireing squad, or to beheaded then ask do you believe in God !!!! Or be tossed out of a plain 3000 feet up, then let`s see if he starts praying .
My son has served two times in Iraq and is getting ready for a third time,with out God being with him and God`s Angels to protect him, where would he be .

It is an oxymoron to claim that the military is a Christian organization. Christ does not rquires his followers to kill their enemies. Rather, he requires compassion and self-sacrifice.

The question appears to be meant to ensnare the reader.

This is what CNN really thinks is an important story? Who cares? A guy in the Army who doesn’t like what people say to him? Grow up! Pull up your big boy pants and get over it. It’s life, people don’t have to like or accept your views and have the right to say so.

I am also a closeted atheist, known only to my immediate family. I am honest and moral, caring and loving. I’m not this way because a god tells me I need to be but because I know it’s right. I need to do so because it is the right way to be, to maintain respect for myself and my world. When polled, Americans say Atheists are some of the least trusted people in this country. Is this just fear of the unknown or religious radicalism?

My sympathy goes out to Mr Hall, as I have the same feelings and concerns living in the civilian world. Every day I deal with those who say “bless you” when I sneeze, tell me they are praying for me, that angels are watching me. Church signs all over tell me about the glory of the lord and my local newspaper condemn intellegent, scientific thinking or things deemed too “secular”.

Sometimes it is on the tip of my tongue to just say what I’m thinking but my fear of repercussions like Mr Hall has experienced, continues to hold me back. My daughter’s friend who is gay and atheist said they would rather tell people they are gay. That really makes a statement, considering the history of how gay people have been treated in this country.

I dream of moving to Europe where freethinking is accepted and encouraged and religious radicalism doesn’t exist. I’m sure someone may comment that I should just go, but darn it, this is my country too! I was born and raised here. All my life I’ve heard exclaimed that this is the land of the free. I guess that only pertains to the religious…

Kudos to Mr Hall for being strong enough to fight this fight for us. I wish him every success.

Some of your readers believe than atheists don´t believe in anything. Preposterous! Atheists believe they cannot know what is not knowable. Many believe in science, truth, beauty in nature, reason, freedom, fairness, equality, ethics, morality, the pursuit of knowledge, and kindness. It really gets my ire up when Christians think they have some sort of moral superiority over atheists because they believe in a god.

From an Army girlfriend: Soldiers should have the same freedoms they are fighting to protect, including religion.

To the person who said “…if he were close to me while in the war in Iraq I would want him to get away from me as far as possible. I would not eat at the same table or be in the same Humvee.” The problem a lot of people are having these days with the Christian church is that some of its followers are becoming more and more extreme. They fail to see that a person with different beliefs is still just that- a person. If that person chooses not to believe in the same higher power, that is their choice. No one should force their religion upon another.

Hm. My opinion is that everyone should respect each other’s religious beliefs. Specialist Hall is certainly entitled to hold no religious belief at all, and the soldiers around him are just as entitled to worship how, where, and what they may.

As for the dinner example, I would expect that while some soldiers say grace before their meal, Specialist Hall would be welcome to stay and not have to participate, but at least be silent and respectful during their time of worship before the meal. No person’s belief should infringe on another’s.

Please, he is a drama queen and the ones who are acting all outraged over this are as well.

Official policy is just what the DOD says it is. He simply is someone who likes to stick his fingers in the eyes of fellow soldiers who are religious so he can play the martyr when they respond.

He knows there is a certain population of people who are anti-religious and anti-military, who yes, shockingly are one in the same who will join him on this grand soap opera that he has started.

I am atheist, was in the Marines, and it was never an issue. And I am sure it wouldn’t have been for this trouble making, little princess if he hadn’t manufactured it.

How about, not allowing your buttons to be so easily manipulated readers?

Not just the military is becoming a quasi-religious organ, but the mercenaries that the United States now employs, Blackwater, was founded by the Prince family and literally sees its involvement in Iraq as part of a “holy war.” That isn’t just nuts, it’s frightening. Wake up, people, the dogmatic idealogues are taking over and it ain’t gonna be pretty…

I am a Christian & proud of it. Because I am a Christian, I feel compelled to pray for this young soldier. As an American, I know that religious freedom was one of the basic reasons our forefathers came to this great country. If we cannot guarantee the religious freedom of our own troops, how can we stop zealots like the Taliban? It’s impossible. A lot of things happen in the military that are against DOA policy. Look at the Abu Ghraib scandal. Sexual harrassment at our military academies. Violent hazing that is thinly disguised as training. It begs the question: Where is the leadership? It also begs the question: Is this honor? I don’t think so. For the record, the numerous vets in my family agree with me. WE NEED TO CLEAN-UP OUR ACT!

There is a saying “There are no atheists in fox holes.” To be willing to put your life on the line I would sure hope you believe in an after life and a heaven. I respect this soldier’s service and have nothing against him being an atheist but this is like going to a black panther meeting and saying you think Hitler was a cool guy. He shouldn’t be kicked out or anything but rather just have been transferred to another area with new soldiers.

Who cares what religion you are or are not! I am sick of hearing about everyone’s religion and their opinions of others who do not share the same beliefs. This country may have been founded on christianity, but the christians today are far different from the christians then. Everyone wants to force their ways upon others. If we took religion out of the world, it would be a better place. Look at the Middle East; the root of all problems is religion. My family is from Italy and devoted their lives to the catholic church. I am sure a lot of people have opinions about the catholic church, as do I. However, I respected their beliefs and moved on. I am not a religious person, but there is a cross hanging in my house. Why? Because it was important to the grandparents and again, I respected their beliefs and moved on. This world needs more tolerance or less religion.

You are trying to sue the Military? you are one of the most STUPID individual in the military community. You are already stupid for being an Atheist and dumb for trying to sue the U.S government. Trying to get an easy retirement? work for it dude. Shame on you and to your family.

A reminder to people who believe this country was founded on “Christian Principles”: the founding father’s were Deists, among other things. That is, they did believe in one god, a creator of things, but they also believed that after creation was complete the creator left things alone.
One more thing: patriotism does not have a prerequisite of religion, it just requires that one fight for their country and protect those that live there no matter what anyone’s belief system.

Being in the military (USAF) myself, this is the first I heard of an atheist being attacked for his (non)beliefs. Being on the flightline with enough things to worry about, you’d think tsoldiers have better things to do than be nitpicky about someone’s belief, like…I don’t know, not getting blown to bits. However, being part of a belief that’s ridculed daily for believing a “ghost man” and maliciously shown their mistakes (”Oh you’re christian, but you drank a beer so obviously you’re a HYPOCRITE lawl”, “aren’t you supposed to be perfect with that imaginary friend of yours?”). Probably no surprise that they (Christians) would snap and act bitter toward others, be they other christians or not. It’s human nature, you can only take the abuse for so long. I, myself, am a christian (a bad one I think =(, I’m trying honest!), and I do believe people are given a choice that they can make, so long as they are willing to take the possible consquences that come with it and there are consquences for all decisions. But, I don’t really expect anyone to believe me. This is just another day…

Religious persecution has many forms and has been since man could form such ideas. The notion that if you are not with us you are against us is sickening. The whole of human history would have been a lot less bloody with religious tolerance. Most of the turmoil in the middle east and many aspects of the war we are in are because of religious views.

A good soldier, like a good Christian, shouldn’t think too much. That’s why the military and the megachurch are both rife with people who are happy to be told what to do. In fact, neither institution could operate efficiently with too many critical-thinking, outspoken members. So, while it’s a shame that this young man was discriminated against because of his Atheism, it’s certainly no surprise. He’s better off not being in the Army anyway.

“Lee Collins July 7th, 2008 3:50 pm ET

I don’t think that anything in the above story is religious discrimination . However if he were close to me while in the war in Iraq I would want him to get away from me as far as possible. I would not eat at the same table or be in the same Humvee.
Who does he think has keep him alive in the war. I can’t blame any of the other soldiers at all for their actions because mine would have been the same.

Lee”

Well, I’m glad I don’t have to deal with such a prejudiced, judgmental moron like yourself. The fact that while a 24 year old soldier is risking his life for this country is commendable, yet the high and mighty Christian (you) condemns him because he doesn’t believe in god like you do. You likely go to church and pray for the safe return of our troops, but I would assume you’re only worried about the good, Christian troops coming home. The statement you posted earlier was the most ridiculous garbage I’ve ever read and I would find it incredibly amusing if you passed away and discovered that god doesn’t exist.

By the way, if I recall correctly, isn’t god supposed to be the only one who can pass judgment on people? Quit your discriminatory garbage and go back to fondling altar boys, you disgusting freak of nature.

THERE IS NO GOD!!

I am surpised by how many people who will willing condem a group of people for their lack of respect of one persons belief will turn around and be disrespectful themselves.
Ignorance is ignorace whether they believe in God or choose not to. The people who treated Mr. Hall in this way should be repremanded and forced to study the Jesus they claim to follow.
However, after 15 years in the military I have had conversations with with christian athiest agnostic, satinist, and spiritualist and never once had anyone claim to be mistreated. I do not think that that this story is typical of most interactions between believers and non belivers of any faith.

Once again, the militaristic contradictions surface. I ask this:

For men and women willing to risk their lives to keep us safe, why should it matter if at the end of the day the issue a bit of thanks to God, Allah, Satan, Science, Zoroaster, or Buddah?

It is okay to ask soldiers to take an oath to never back down, never retreat, defend against all enemies, foreign or domestic…but self-preservation and free-thinking individuals are ostracized?

Atheism, when you boil it down, is a belief in something tangible…family, hard work, progress. Is the military against these basic ideals?

If you don’t want a God-based military then why don’t you come down on those of the Jewish faith? I guess its easier to bash Christians, tho you don’t say which Christians ( Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Adventist, etc)

This guy is not about being atheist or anything. I was in Iraq in 91 and 2004, nine month tour and i had seen so many excuses from younger generation of military that will do anything just to get out. This one is no difference.

As an atheist I understand where this man comes from. Since I decided that I was an atheist at heart I was faced with a world of discrimination and ignorance. I think that if there really is true freedom of religion then even those us who don’t believe in a higher power should have the freedom to not only believe in what we believe in, but not be criticised or have religious views shoved in our faces. Imagine if we were walking around telling everyone that they should be atheist. How would you feel if you were the only religious person among a group of atheist? —- Well, that’s our life every day.

I served in a special mission unit that required extensive background checks, psychological evaluations, and a Top Secret security clearance, just to get an interview. One of the questions I was asked by the ’shrink’ was what religious preference I was. I told him, in no uncertain terms, that I was an atheist. He asked me if I had been in combat, I said yes. He asked if I prayed to God to help me in dire situations. I told him that I was more interested in figuring out how to get myself out of the situation instead of asking someone else – someone who wasn’t physically there and who may or may not offer anything I could use – to help me out. Bottom line is that I was accepted in the unit. That doesn’t sound like religous persecution to me.

So I cannot agree with this young soldier that the military at large doesn’t respect everyone’s right to believe whatever it is one might believe. If that were the case I wouldn’t have been accepted in this unit and would have been told to go back to where it was that I came from.

It’s my experience that the military is what you make of it. I would expect that there are more sides to this story than what this soldier is admitting to. There is something else going on here and it could be that the local leadership has a problem with his belief, I don’t know. But I cannot agree that there is a pattern of religous persecution.

David is correct, this guys is a three dollar bill, in twenty years in the US Navy, I not only didn’t see anything like this or even heard of anything like this. This guy is trying to make a name for himself. No one in the military cares about your religion or lack of it…

David July 7th, 2008 3:37 pm ET

This is a little far from how things were for me. I was a LCpl in the Marines, and was also an athiest. I was never discriminated against, ever. I went to church twice in boot camp because i was bored. my dog tags said athiest on them. I was in several debates with people in the fleet about why i felt the way i did. This kid is obviously very weak mentally if he is so easily convinced his beliefes are wrong. Maybe the regular army is a fundamentalists christian organization, but in the Marine Infantry no such problems exist.

This person is looking for an audience and we are obviously giving him one. The majority of the military does not really pay much attention to what an individual does or does not worship. You can be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist, or even worshiper of rocks. It simply isn’t not a major conversation item. Members of the military are free to worship or not worship. It is not a factor on annual evaulations and has no bearing on promotions. Believe it or not, the military focuses its time and energy on things like team building, learning how to fight and win, cultural and civil awareness and yes, how to survive in the worst imaginable situations. They do not have time to worry about what one soldier does or does not worship. This guy was likely a sub-standard soldier and instead of looking in the mirror he is claiming that the “teacher doesn’t like me.” When is 15 minutes is up, I will tune into your show again. Thanks.

you think thats bad. i was honorable discharge from the idaho army national guard,for be mulism. my chain on comm. know about,but did nothing about. i told everyone. but there is more to the story then that. but that was one of the major thing,i was discharge for.

for how sick this makes me. Think about it, we probably wouldn’t even be in a war if there was no religion. Things would be different and there wouldn’t be so much hate.

Those who shove religion down anyones throat needs to be taken out and shot.

I don’t see why army specialist Jeremy should make a big deal about this situation.I understand that he may feel odd and left out but why try to stop people from living in the religious way they believe in. This soldiers are men that have also sacrificed their entire lives to serve the nation and they should be allowed to practice their religion. They are in a profession where nothing is certain, so i wouldn’t blame them if they want to serve their God who has kept them alive till this day. The way I see it is that they are the ones being persecuted, they are the ones about to be denied serving their God freely. What has the army specialist Jeremy got to lose, he has no religion….why not let others practice theirs.

I would also like to mention that America is founded on Christian principles, and some of the founding fathers and past presidents looked up to God during their lifetime to help make many of the decisions that are the foundation of this great nation today.

So many people have capitalized on the separation of church and state to interfere in the Christian religion. The separation of church and state should not affect the freedom of true Christ-like Christians to live their Christian lives.

I believed that it is basic in every organization,public or private, that they have a grievance machinery wherein their employees can air or ventilate their grievance and seek remedy thereof.This procedure is designed to enable an organization to work smoothly and orderly like the military. Also, it will avoid trial by publicity in any case presented before the body as the case will be resolved based on the merits of the case. While undisputably religious freedom in this instant case is a basic constitutional right of the complainant yet in the absence of any evidence or sufficient proof that their is a transgression or infringement of his constitutional right we should not prejudged the military (officials) guilty of violating such right. Also, in our jurisprudence to allege is one thing while to prove is another thing.

I am a Jewish Army officer with 20 years of active service as both an officer and enlisted Soldier. I have never seen religious discrimination in the military, but you can’t go around the Army with a thin skin.

I have deployed 5 times, Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo, and two Iraq tours. When I was in Company command in Kosovo two of my NCOs were Muslim. One of them was promoted twice since then and was the 1SG of the Company I was with on my last tour in Iraq.

Every one in my chain of command knew my non-christian religious beliefs and never discriminated against me. When I told the Chaplin my religious beliefs they always ensured I had religious items, literature etc that was for my religion.

Plenty of Soldiers had Athiest or Agnostic or No pref on their ID Tags (Dog tags), I even had one Soldier on my first Iraq Tour have FSM for Flying Spaghetti Monster on his ID tags.

Finally, the Army has a system in place for soldiers to report religious discrimination (to include athiests) at every Company, BN, BDE and Division and Corps level. Every Soldier sits through quarterly training and see’s dozens of posters telling them how to report discrimination.

I frankly dont believe the SPC was discriminated against and if he was he certainly didn’t handle it properly.

“America was founded on Christian principles”… oh boo hoo… this is such a ridiculous lie that Christians love to trumpet, mostly having convinced themselves of it without learning any history to back it up. It simply isn’t true – just look at Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously approved by the 5th congress, which stated in no uncertain terms that “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Stop saying that it was! Repeating a falsehood over and over again does not make it true. If it did, god would exist by now!

I’m afraid it’s a plan from the Christian fundamentalists to have more and more of their “men” become politicians and enter the military. They know that this is the best way to hold power.
It’s sad. This country is going back to the middle ages.
With the end of this terrible government I was hoping that the next president would be a person of reason. No need to say that seeing Obama advertising his religiosity disappoints and depresses me.

Lee Collins writes: “if he were close to me while in the war in Iraq I would want him to get away from me as far as possible. I would not eat at the same table or be in the same Humvee.
Who does he think has keep him alive in the war. I can’t blame any of the other soldiers at all for their actions because mine would have been the same.”

Listen to yourself, Lee- Why would you want not want toeat at the same table, etc, if not for the fact that he doesn’t believe the same thing as you and then you have the absolutely idiotic nerve to say it’s not religious descrimination.

I believe that one should be able to live ones’ life as one should so chose, unless his/her actions should bring about a negative to others or the environment*. That is true freedom towards which we should all strive to acheive.

* = Effects on the environment and others are based on not takeing this statment too far as most left wing liberals usualy do. Common sense applies!

It is unfortunate that SPC Hall had to suffer from the religious bigotry from a certain few while serving in the Army, and has every right to sue the leadership at DOD for failing to protect his rights. However, I find it extremely hard to believe he was passed over for promotion due to his religious beliefs. I’ve served in the US Air force, and never in my entire enlisted career have I ever felt being discriminated due to my religious beliefs (I am a practicing Muslim). This is one organization where most if not all members, regardless of race/sex/religion stand side by side and are willing to sacrifice to protect their brothers in arms.

Pentagon on the other hand needs to do a better job to eradicate those few mindless zealot and religious bigots, who are discrediting the entire military. They also need to amend the Oath of Enlistment which ends with “So help me God”. Even though individuals are given an option to skip that part, according to Federal Regulations, the entire oath has to be read.

This has been going on forever…dont you remember the hearings about Pat Tillman? They even told his mother that “since he wasn’;t a Christian, he would be ‘worm food”". It’s disgusting. Some of the founding fathers were atheist/agnostic. This is NOT a “christian country”. I am SICK of faith-based anything (W/GOVT $$) (Doesnt anyone remember Jesus in the Temple “Get your money out of my father’s house!”.? (Yes, I had catechism) . I wish people would just keep their religion in their home and their church/temple/mosque. Unless you want ot be a religious dictatorshi[ like Saudi Arabia. We ALMOST are!

For people who say they were in the military , and it wasn;t an issue–was that beofre Dubya?? He’s the one that went along with the neo-cons plan to con poor whites into voting against their own best interests, subscribing to “faith-based” initiatives (and “science”), and, to fight wars that they also have to pay for…..Let me ask you this..if you’re evangelical—if there were no heaven involved, would you be so dedicated? Honestly, lets just say Jesus came to you and said, “Hey, I was wrong about the heaven stuff..youd have to be a saint like me to get in. Sorry. But, you still love me anyway, and watn to follow my good works dont you? Even if there’s bno reward for you–even being a millionaire televangelist”. Now go out an feed the poor!!

I am upset that a few of the comments on here are against Atheism instead of supporting the inherent right to believe whatever one wants to believe. There are only a few who disagree with this freedom of religion claim; however, the few that do disagree, grossly misunderstand what freedom of religion is. It is an inherent right to believe what one wants to believe.

After scanning for arguments against this case, I saw one argument that misunderstands or redefines that freedom of religion to be that it is not freedom to be an atheist. However, this equivocation/redefining concepts focuses just on the term without regard to its history and meaning in law. The meaning in law is that it is religious freedom, especially from any establishment of religious by the usa government. However, if one were just to focus on the equivocation/redefinition of the concept, then one could simply argue that Buddhism includes atheism and the practices of the government military does not protect this guy from practicing Buddhism. However, again, the whole concept is religious freedom not some narrow view and equivocation of the term and history.

The other argument that bothered me was that “our forefathers” wanted to make this a Christian nation. However, “our forefathers” who formed our government, including Constitution, were mostly Deist — meaning that they did not believe in a God who interacts with humans, like Christians do. Furthermore, with the advancement of science, those “forefathers” would probably atheist, as Richard Dawkins has pointed out at times.

Either way, the right to believe whatever one wants is something that is inherent from birth because it is internal and exists inside a person, for one. Either way, beliefs are somewhat minute, tangible, meaningless things, treating someone a certain way because of beliefs is not a minute nor meaningless thing, however. It is very unethical to treat anyone a certain way because of *BELIEFS*.

I am sadden that there are arguments against someone believing whatever they want.

Go to your constitution and the right of freedom of religion. If he has been discriminated agaist on relgious grounds and a civil court(not military) ddems he has been so discriminated against then shame on the military machine that effected that discrimination.
Personally, any form government or otherwise that asks for my religion is where I choose never to answer the question what ever the consequences… look again to your constitution on the right of non self incriminationand right to a trial by a jury of one,s peers.
Regards,
Hodgson.

I am very impressed by the great majority of writing in this blog. As an atheist myself I have felt very isolated in the USA these last near 8 years. It is comforting to read so many well expressed entries here. I am however saddened that the possibility of running for a high political office in this country seems to be limited to those who openly claim to be such good Christians. A man of mixed blood and a woman are a wonderful step forward for sure but I wonder if we will see an Atheist succeed in running for President.

I would also like to add that being ‘atheist’ isn’t a belief, it is simply label for a lack of believing in myths and legends, that is all. It is not a label of a group that has anything in common. So when one person who happens to be atheist does or says something it has absolutely no bearing on what any other atheists thinks or feels. To infer otherwise would be like thinking someone who doesn’t play tennis is like another person who doesn’t play tennis!

The founding Fathers of our great Country acknowledged the Existence of GOD and signed on to a document that We, The People
.Americans have inalienable rights given by GOD.
An Atheist is anti-american and does not believe in the foundational
truths on which our country has been blessed by Almight GOD.
The Atheist should be denied American Citizenship and thrown out of our country. WE Americans sing and shout ” GOD BLESS AMERICA.
WE BELIEVE IN GOD. ” “IN GOD WE TRUST” IS IMPRINTED IN OUR CURRENCY. AN ATHEIST IN OUR COUNTRY IS AN ENEMY..IN MY OPINION AND IF HE IS OSTRACISED, SO BE IT.
WE CAN TOLERATE OTHER RELIGIONS,BUT NOT ONE WHO REJECTS GOD.

This soldier have every right under the constitution, he of all people. Remember he is a SOLDIER fighting for our freedom. And NOBODY even the government have not right to tell him different. Only the O Mighty God can.

I think Hall is a poor excuse for a soldier. Atheists have no place in America. And the person that told him to go sit somewhere else after Hall refused to bow his head should have been SHOT! What a TOAD!

His story is crap. I have been in the military for 16 years and have never been discriminated against or harassed for not being religious. My I.D. tags which were issued to me through the military say Religion-no preference. I have never had bad ratings on my performance reports for not attending church. Some people will do or say anything to get their 5 minutes of fame. Everyone knows you can’t sue the government!

20 years of military service including time in war zones and not once have I faced discrimination or seen others face discrimination for their faith or lack thereof.

I saw the young man on another news program and it appears his immaturity is the real sources of his problems and not his atheism.

Sharing, discussing and debating beliefs is not proselytizing. It is what we in America do (Freedom of Speech). We restrict the rights of our service-members enough as it is. Do we take away their right to share, discuss and debate religious beliefs because one immature young man is confused?

Christianity has become synonymous with bigotry. And unfortunately, history education in America fails to properly explain our nation’s beginnings in religious freedom. I have no doubt the soldier was discriminated against. I get bigoted Christian emails every day!

I just recently left active duty with the USMC after 10 years of service as an officer. I have met some really idiotic and ignorant officers and find this guys claim really hard to believe. What I think is more likely is that this guy may have had a hard time following orders and doing his job and is using the religion issue as a way to divert attention to this. The couple of officers that I know were in a way “religious zealots” didn’t try to hide their beliefs, but never once did I witness an incident where a person was singled out and discriminated against because he or she was a “non-believer”. I hope in the end that all fact will come out. If the officer and other soldiers in his unit really did do what he is claiming then they should be held accountable.

As a Retired Marine Corps DRILL INSTRUCTOR, we were UNDER INSTRUCTION from the Upper Chain of command that during Sunday Services, EVERY RECRUIT would go to a Religeous Service, ANY SERVICE, just as long as they went.

Recruits were given this instruction on the very first Sunday of recruit Training. They were instructed that there were no Athiests in Foxholes.

I was stationed at MCRD San Diego from 1995-97. C Company, 1st recruit training Bn.

When I went to recruit training, I was given the same instruction.

Woah! This is media propaganda if I ever saw it. Why a front page story about an athiest in the military? Is it a ploy to get Christian voters to vote for war because then they would be supporting their faith via the military?
In any case, the Pentagon and the U.S. military are about as Christian as:
1) A Satanic seance using infants for human sacrifice.
2) The Bank of England and a U.S. Robber Baron
3) A baseball bat made out of depleted uranium made in Tawain by child labor.

I find this EXTREMELY hard to believe. I AM a Christian and although I pray and would hope for all to come to know the Lord, we do not FORCE the issue, it is a personal, heart issue that is between you and God. I have family members in the military-Navy,Army and Marines and none of them could relate to this story. I feel Mr Hall is dealing , or attempting to deal with some issues & convictions and instead of turning back to the loving God he once knew he is striking out in anger. By the picture,you can see it in his face. I will be praying for Jeremy and his family as I know this must be breaking their hearts.

As an Ex-Pastor, I know how this soldier feels. I think the discrimination comes from other members of the military but not as a stated policy of the military. Unfortunately, this type of subtitle discrimination is very hard to prove. I always hear our country was founded on Christian principles. That is partially true. But may of those Christian men were also Masons which believe that one religion should not be promoted over another. We see the results when one religion becomes supreme and authoritative – IRAN. God help us to Keep this wonderful country really free for ALL.

Yeah Jimmy, you’re completely right.. and as such then every soldier who has “no religious preference” on their dogtags should be removed from the service right? Guess what? If you did that you’d loose about 1/3 of the military.. because most of us with that on our dogtags.. fighting for your rights an liberty as well as that of the world by the way.. are in fact atheists and agnostics.

how about you leave and go join some extremist religious group like… oh i don’t know.. THE ENEMY???!!! Because you sound a lot like them.

Want to see this in action? Just read the post by Lee Collins. How ignorant and frightening. He actual wrote, “Who does he think has keep him alive in the war.”. I would ask Mr. Collins, who has kept the enemy alive in the war then? And by his faulty logic then the soldiers who have died were NOT kept alive by Jesus. This circular logic is too pervasive in this country. Use your brain people.

Amen….for lack of a better word.

This story is ridiculous. 15 years and counting on active duty and I can attest that this is not true in my personal experiences.

I’ve been in the military for 23 years and these allegations are ridiculous. My only question is, what is the true catalyst behind his assertion of ecumenical pressure.

I believe that this young man should be allowed to believe what he feels he wants to. He should be treated with respect. Are we not to love one another? No matter what? Mr. Hall is not unlike many, many other people – both male and female – who sometimes lose their faith and start questioning. Many get their faith back, some don’t. And I certainly think that being in a war could perhaps shatter your beliefs. Especially if those beliefs were shaky to begin with. This is probably the first time this young man has had his faith tested. Mr. Hall needs to reread the Bible again, keep an open mind and ask for help in answers to his questions. ( Sometimes there are no answers, but you have to take things on faith. Like you have faith your son will come home from the store, or your spouse will arrive home from work every day.) Whether it’s by prayer or speaking with religious leaders he should reach out. But he should not be disrepected because his faith has been shaken. If he is disrepected/mistreated, then it only shows him that Christians or Jews or whoever are narrowminded and sometimes cruel. Then why should he even want to associate with any of us?

Recourse for Soldiers and other service-members who feel discriminated against for race, religion, national orignin, etc., etc. : the Inspector General’s Office; the Staff Judge Advocate (JAG); the Equal Opportunity Advisor(and office); the Chain of Command–including the right to see the Commanding General (an open door policy for those who feel they can’t trust the lower levels of the command).

Did Spc. Hall use any of these resources before bringing a lawsuit against the former SECDEF? Why is Mr. Weinstein trying to exploit this confused young man? I thought only lawyers who had no case put their clients on TV.

I worked in the Chaplains office when I was in the Navy. I was and still am an atheist in my beliefs. Although my beliefs enabled me to be non discriminant in providing services to soldiers, their dependents and DoD civilians of all faiths, I always got the hint from individuals that they would’ve liked me to be religious. A few would even press me into debates which I “professionally” did my best to avoid. Did I experience discrimination or social persecution? Not to the extent as Jeremy, but yes I did. Fact is … if you are different at all in the military, you will be singled out. Heck a couple of Marine buddies got grilled for associating with me because I was a sailor. Shows how intolerant and conservative our armed forces are trained to be.

I respect the fact that he has chosen to be an atheist. His personal folly, though, was not to seek God for wisdom, as the Bible instructs. I’m always astounded by people who say that don’t believe in God and also indicate that they have read the Bible. But it’s not automatic. Hebrews 11:6 tells us that it takes faith to please him. But we always have to question, then question again, analyze, then overanalyze. There is proof that there is a God, but because it takes faith that many people don’t have to receive that truth, Christianity will always seem foolish. The discrimination that non-believers face is unjust, but that’s what happens when you oppose something that uplifts people’s belief in a greater good. Most people hate, whether for that greater good, or lesser evil, because they are afraid. Afraid of being proven wrong, or changing the way they think. I’m sold on Jesus Christ, so no atheist or Muslim or anyone else can shake that. The Body of Christ (Christians to you non-believers) must take a stand, and be as bold as atheist. They don’t want the Ten Commandments on buildings, but I haven’t heard any large protests of “In God We Trust” on money. Freedom of religion has been misinterpreted. It was so that Christians would be able to celebrate their faith in all aspects of life. God in our lives should never be secret or private. That’s wrong. Separation of church and state was to prevent the government from doing what it does now: crack down on Christians, and giving preference to all other beliefs. That, also, is wrong.

As someone who used to belong to this dangerous subculture that believes everything is a sign from God, or can be twisted into a sign from the Almighty, all I have to say is, sometimes a rainbow is just a rainbow.

If you read your Bible you’ll find that there are very few true prophets in that book. Out of the millions of people born since time began, only a handfull are the ones whose predictions, for doom or blessing, can be trusted in the Bible stories. Nonetheless, the conservative Christians among us feel they are ALL blessed with the power to see the future—to see the “signs” and read God’s will by interpreting them.

It is a group think and a high. Having participated in many services in which someone in charge told us WE were ALL RIGHT and the outsiders were all wrong, it’s a high that can only be beat with drugs, booze, or gambling.

Actually, the more I look at what Bush (and his partners in crime, the conservative Christians) has done, the more I wonder if he’s addicted to gambling. The financial markets sure feel like a bad bet that didn’t pay off—-for all of us.

Freedom Of Religion ….. Should include Freedom From Religion.

Every military function stats with prayer. Watch Armed Forces TV or listen to Armed Forces radio and it will only take a few minutes to know what faith the US Military is.

USAF Ret

Just because one nut job postal worker gunned down a bunch of people does not mean that all mailmen are homicidal maniacs. Saying you are a christian and being a christian can be two different things. I think by definition if you met a mean, bigoted, prejudiced jerk who said he was a christian he would be wrong! We are called to love others and glorify God. We are called to have a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ, and to be Christlike. Loving others into the kingdom of God. How can you have a heart of love and be as mean and unloving as those people were? YOU CAN’T!!!

AND ANOTHER THING! If you doubt for a minute that our country’s founding fathers were christians….you have not read their speeches or letters! Go and buy a book called “Under God,” by Toby Mac and Michael Tait. It goes straight to the source!!!!!

The U.S. Military a Christian organization? Ummm…as a veteran, I KNOW that is not the case. Yes, there are Christians in the military, as there are Jews, and Muslims, Wiccans, and everything else you can think of. AND, there are plenty of members who do not believe in God. If anything, it’s harder for those who are religious and in the military.

I just wanted to address all the people who only took enough time to criticize this soldier for “show boating” and suing simply for being criticized by his fellow soldiers, and didn’t actually read through the article in its full. the issue isn’t the critcism. It’s the fact that such a intolerant mentality was allowed to spread to such an extent without the military taking some sort of action. Sure, it is present throughout the country, but the amount of trouble it caused for this young man was disproportionate to what is normal and acceptable. Also, his career advancement was halted based purely on his beliefs, an officer literally telling him he wouldn’t make a good leader because he wouldn’t pray with other soldiers. I would ask everyone to write comment based on more than the article title.

John Adams wrote: ” We have no government armed in power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our constitution was made ONLY FOR A REIGIOUS AND MORAL PEOPLE. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other. AND have you read the Mayflower compact people? How about the fact that Bible verses are etched in the stone over every federal building and mnument in Washington DC? And the very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said that “Americans should select and prefer christians as their leaders.” and what about William Penn and his holy experiment? I could go on and on and on…….

By my personal experience, there is definitely pressure to be religious in the military.

I left the Air Force Academy as a young woman in the mid-80’s in part because of this (also because of the rampant chauvinism and homophobia….I was not surprised to hear of the various sexual assault charges at the AFA in the 90’s!).

During basic training, each evening we were to have “quiet personal time”. If we chose to not attend religious services during that time and stay in our room, we were continually harrassed. The only way to get any “quiet” was to go to church/synagogue. I basically felt like I was being “tortured” to go to church.

So yes, I firmly believe that while it may not be official military policy, it is an entrenched dogma in the ranks, and encouraged.

I find it hard to believe that he was discriminated against because of his beliefs. I personally have had troops that I supervised who have different beliefs than I do. I did not in any way hold it against them, because we are taught that everyone has freedom of religion. I think that in a war situation and environment you are literally in hell. The comment “do you believe in Jesus now” did not strike me as wrong, but as an example that God exists. Yes he believes different, but from a country that was initially founded on Jesus Christ, that soldier did good in making the comment. As a Christian myself, I don’t get mad at this story because he doesn’t believe, I look at it as another way of pushing God out of America and then complaining because of the way of the world. I was in the AF for 6 years and I have never discriminated as a leader to a non believer. It’s one team, one fight! Officers that do lead prayer do that to keep their troops fighting. Please don’t respond to their actions if you have not been over there fighting. Until you have, you don’t know what those troops see, feel, or deal with. A prayer goes a long way and talking to God lets you know that someone is on your side….believer or not.

I have been on active duty for 16 years. Sadly, what the soldier alleges happens every day. I have been ostracized and have seen others ostracized for not standing and praying at, for example, the beginning of staff meetings. Mind you, I have never complained about the prayers. I’d like to sit silently and wait for my colleagues to finish their religious observance. Unfortunately, that’s not enough for the evangelical Christian set. They claim deep offense and discrimination if you don’t stand, squeeze your eyes shut and say amen. Let me conclude by saying that this is by no means official policy. Military chaplains understand and enforce the law and never impose their beliefs on anyone. I’m glad they are there to minister to those who actually want or need them. The inappropriate pressure, however, comes from peers who abuse those who don’t believe and from the commanders who either place pressure on the service member themselves, or are complicit merely by looking the other way.

As a conservative christian I assure you that I, nor anyone I know in my baptist church thinks they can see the future. Nor has my pastor, or any other pastor in whose church I have worshipped said we were all right, and everybody outside was all wrong. What they preach….and what the bble says…..is that we are all sinners in need of a savior!

This is discrimination for sure. A few so called atheists are now trying to dictate the religious freedoms of many from the sounds of it. It’s somewhat amusing, but the very definition of atheist means there has to some acknowledgement of a God to deny in the first place. Folks grow up, and leave those who believe alone too! I’m in the military, and I know these issues are handled appropriately. It’s obvious somewhere down the line this guy got disgruntled at the military organization/leadership as a whole because he did not get something he “thought” he deserved from leadership in his unit. I can say that I have been discriminated against in the past for being a Christian in the military, but I was bigger than that. I overlooked the issues of a few. I’m still in, and my career is doing great. (Sorry to disappoint some of you.) If I wanted to sit down and eat lunch with your group would I be scorned if I bowed my head to pray or did not believe in your system or so called “patriotism”? I believe I would be… at least inwardly… but that’s ok right because we are a free country. Oh by the way, I can choose to eat lunch with whomever I want still, right? Of course I can. I don’t always have to eat with my unit. Remember, I’m in the military (15 years plus now), so don’t tell me this is not a true statement.

Yes there are things in the military that can be perceived as “unfair,” and of course the military has problems like any organization. However, the military is fairer than other organizations in the government or private sector, so this whole law suit is really ridiculous! Yes I sound harsh, but it is what it is. Fairness is a perception, but I guess those few in our pampered society that support this kind of thing need to have their boo-boos kissed every time they scrape their knee. Now amongst everything else going on, the military has to expend resources and attention to this issue. Good job soldier! Take our nation’s attention away from what really matters which is winning the war through supporting our Iraqi and Afghani brothers in arms.

I should address this change of beliefs based on a “few” friends? Spiritual insight can only be received if you were a born again Christian in the first place. Regardless of whose side you are on though, it’s obvious there will always be zombies who will change their mind based on the biased information of a few. If you are going to change your mind that’s fine, but get all the facts and angles. There are too many mindless sheep (Christian or not) whose minds have been rotted by the “boob tube,” and there belief system will change with the wind based on the flavor of the month… especially if there is glory or something else in it for them.

It sounds like some need to do a little real self examination no matter how much it hurts. This is just the kind of so called patriotism that diverts our nation from taking care of the weightier issues at home and abroad. Rome first rotted from the inside before they fell apart, but I guess that’s ok with everyone that supports this garbage! Way to look out for your country!

Just because Spc. Hall told Anderson Cooper he was discriminated against does not mean he was discriminated against.

Where are the comments from the people Hall says mistreated him? I’ll bet their lawyer is telling them to keep quite and let the truth come out in court.

Mr. Weinstein is exploiting this confused young man for his own agenda. I am surprised that a man with the credentials of Mr. Weinstein would stoop to such a low.

The military is NOT a Christian organization and war is not a Christian practice. To suggest otherwise is to be oblivious of God’s will and the spirit of Christianity.

Wake up world, everybody needs God right now before it is too late.
Don’t be discouraged, keep your Christian faith strong, because we as christians know, that God is coming back at any time.
By the way, we Christians know we are ready to go Heaven at any time for eternal life.

Intolerance of Atheists, or Muslims, or Gays, or any other ethnic difference is fueled by insecurity of some Christians in their own faith. They can say they are secure, but they are kidding themselves. This soldier was right, and he has every right to be an atheist in the military. Nowhere in the USCOMJ does it say that a soldier has to be a Christian. Anyone who thinks Hall doesn’t have a valid case, needs to read the Bible again, and the U.S. Bill of rights. He has every right to be an atheist and a soldier. I’m behind him 100%.

i challenge this article! The military does not care if he is athiest!
His troopmates may indeed care of his lack of faith. If he is denied
leadership positions that may be indeed because his comrades have no faith in him and would not want to be led by him!

It is easy to sensationalize this story. It has the gripping Athiest
vs. Christianity story line. The guy can’t be promoted because the
“Man” is against him.

There is more to the story than the sensationalism! Dig deeper
and report back CNN!

My take, frustrated man, two tours in the military and he thinks every
one should be tolerant of his atheism! Why does everyone have to
be tolerant? He is the one airing out his religious conviction. It is
best he keeps his own mouth shut!

Great article -so nice to see someone shedding light on this topic. How sad that people in our military are acting like religious nuts – I totally believe the stories of harrassment and other acts against atheists in the military – if there is one person of higher rank with a crazy religious mind set you can bet they will proseltize when ever they can!

Shame on the military – those who serve our country deserve better

I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised by the large number of Christian bloggers who are speaking out against the discrimination – if it is true. Sadly, I do believe the soldier was treated badly for his belief – just look at how no atheist could be a contender for President. Ridiculous. Are we electing a President or a Pope?

I wouldn’t assume that he was pushing his atheism as one reader commented. Nobody has made that claim – and it sounds like that reader is one of those people who freely talks about his religion, but then finds it “annoying” to hear someone respond that they don’t share their belief. It is those Christians – who have no tolerance for others – who, to me, seem ignorant of Jesus’ teachings. How encouraging it is, therefore, to see so many bloggers who identified themselves as Christian practice what they “preach.”

I am a LCpl in the US Marine Corps Reserve. I talked to some of my buddies and they have never heard of anything like this. Nor has either of my grandfathers who served in WW II, both of whom knew atheists in their respective units. In fact, 90% of my LAR unit is atheist or agnostic. We discuss our beliefs but no one is judged by them. I believe this instance to be a mostly isolated event not handled correctly by the Specialist’s chain of command. As a Christian myself, ANY intolerance of any kind would not be acceptable in my fire team, or any unit I command as I progress from enlisted to officer. All of the fellow Marines, sailors, soldiers, and airmen (active duty and reserve alike) I have spoken to agree to the same. Again I do not say it didn’t happen here, but I believe to be a mostly isolated instance.

This soldier is a patriot and acting under the protections our constitution grants him….or at least that’s how it should be….for a true American… not some weak minded religious freaks.

What a disturbing article. These “Evangelical Christians” are what has absolutely ruined our country. Evangelicals – you think you are superior to everyone and all other religions. You are actually some of the most disgusting, intolerant, ignorant and hypocritical people on the face of the earth. You quite literally are no better that the very people you call “terrorists”.

If you are really religious, you should be just the opposite. You should be tolerant of other peoples beliefs and respect them. You should not hate someone just because they are not like you. That is a true sign of ignorance.

Look at what this country has sunk to. Our “Christian” military, in a non-christial land fighting a crusade. You would have think we would have learned from our history, but unfortunately we have nothing better to do that to hate each other and live in a state of constant war because of our inolerance.

Look at the worlds history. How many wars have been fought over religion. It is the root of most of the worlds problems, and unfortunately our “Christian” administration and “Christian” military, teh most powerful military in history, are falling right in line.

I admire people who are athiests. They are usually the most tolerant and some of the nicest people on the face of the earth.

You “Evangelicals” disgust me!!

Toby Mac is a Christian author who seeks to prove a presupposition within his own Christian belief system. Go to the true source – read quotes by the following people (Google it) * George Washington * Thomas Jefferson * John Adams * Abraham Lincoln * James Madison (considered the author of the U.S. Constitution) and while you are at it look up the term ‘Deism in the United States’.

You will find that all of these men said things that might offend you if you are a modern day Evangelical Christian. Research it, and think for yourself. I don’t need to be spoon fed ‘the truth’ thru someone else. The United States was founded by ‘Godly men’ but not necessarily Christian men in the strict term.

Trudy in Peoria, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Department of Defense and Department of the Army Regulations do guarantee Spc Hall’s and everyother service-memeber’s right to freedom of religion (including absence thereof). Spc. Hall is claiming that the former Secretary of Defense failed to uphold those laws and protect his rights. Of course, he wouldn’t be the first person to ever make a false claim (to be fair he could be telling the truth too) or to be exploited by people with an agenda. It will be interesting to see the results of the court case. Usually lawyers only put their client on TV when they have no case.

I’m not sure I follow this story. One cannot be a follower of God and kill others. Most of these military individuals are Christians in organization alone. They really don’t understand their faith, or lack of it. If they did understand, the Army would be very small.

I did my time in the Marine Corps. We had all likes. But this type of behavior was never acceptable. I can’t speak for the Army, Navy, or the Air Force but in the Marine Corps if they wanted you to have a religion then they would have issued it to you. Our country was founded on religious freedom so anyone who degrades anyone on thier personal beliefs are no better than the Taliban that we fight.

So to those that made fun of, herased, talk about Army Spc J. Hall then you are no better than the religious fanactics that you deal with on a daily bases. Shame on you all.

Army Spc Jeremy Hall, just leave them Army Losers and come join the Marine Corps. We are Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children and we don’t care who you beleive in.

Siper Fi
JR – Retired Devil Dog

The United States of America, once home of liberty, is slowly becoming a fascists country. Now that the USSR is gone, there is no alternative of society so the USA elites are free to handle things the way they want now that they dominate the world. They dont need to prove anything right now, they dont need to prove any moral or social value of liberty, because they are the only one that has a model to offer and Christianity is playing a big role in this. The institution of, if you prefer.

Like USSR lost it’s principle of liberty and democracy at a point, the USA is, much more slowly, losing the same things and one will will have to face such consequence.

This is sad for you.

People are focusing on Atheism vs Christianity in this blog, but I think we are missing the point here. This isn’t about religion in the military. It is about how people treat others who are somehow different than themselves. Think about it. What other kinds of preferential treatment has been evident in the military? Gays vs. Non-gays. Racism. State relationships. “What school did you grad from?” The truth of the matter is that people band together with people like themselves and tend to rail against those who are different. Its small-minded thinking.

I’d also offer that occurences such as this are relatively few and far between. I am ex-military. I was chastised, persecuted and assaulted for my belief – and I am a Christian. I know how diverse the military is and can be, and most of the time the diversity works well. But…once in a while you get some neanderthals that don’t accept others who are different than them and they use their power to make things rough on others. So what? That’s life! The same problem can be found around you. Corporate life is just as bad. So are neighborhoods and schools. Just deal with it, stop whining, and be bigger than those causing the problems. Lawsuits won’t fix the problems. Toleration will.

I think some Christians actually believe that America is a Christian nation. It isn’t. We are a mixed bunch. We each have the right to believe or not to believe. I personally have witnessed Christians making non-Christian people uncomfortable on several occasions at the state university I attend. If what this soldier is true then I wish him luck. I would do the same thing.

After reading the article and most of the comments, I feel the need to add my own comments.
There are many people who’s comments are what mine would be: is a sad note that true freedom of religion has to be won through litigation.
What I’ve seen here is the argument constantly put forth that “everyone has the freedom to their own belief, or lack thereof” and then some Christian comes along and claims that same freedom that other religions claim. This is very true. ALL people can believe whatever they want. What Christians, and Islamics, need to understand is that you are entitled to BELIEVE whatever you want. You are NOT entitled to cram that belief down someone else’s throat and threaten or cajole that person if they refuse to accept your belief system.
I call myself “spiritual” rather than “religious” because I haven’t found an organized religion that will let me believe what “I” want to believe instead of their propoganda. I believe in God and lead a pretty good life. I do not fear my God as others would have me do. MY God is a wonderful and caring God, not a fearmonger that Christians want to push on me.
As far as Spc. Hall is concerned, you Christians may not have seen any evidence of discrimination in the article but I did. Why would the Army assign a personal bodyguard unless he DID, in fact, have reason to fear for his life from someone other than the enemy? Do you think the Army coddles people to the point of entertaining their fantasies? If the Army felt there was a threat, there was a threat. You just don’t want to accept that so you can belittle this man.
Those of you who are so narrow minded as to refuse to eat at the same table as this atheist are not true Christians. Didn’t your Jesus eat at the table with his known betrayer? Are you better than Jesus?
I think your just ignorant and prefer to stay that way.

I’m disappointed that CNN gave this story the time of day.

At 23, this kid has no idea what he is or what he believes. Compound that with the fog of war …

I will ask for God to bless him anyway.

I am a retired Army officer, served in RVN………….as in all walks of life in the USA………separation of Church and State……….whate the hell happened to that !

Finally, the truth comes out about this war.

While we are trying to help the Muslim world, our American world is speaking the truth about our government. The war is to turn everyone into a christian.

Up until very recently the common question amongst americans was whether or not we will have a black president or a woman president first. The question I ask is when will we have a president that is an atheist or non-Christian.

This nation was founded on Christian beliefs and it seems that now that God has been slowly taken out of our everyday lives, things around us are deteriorating. I bet if it were Kaballah or one of these new and chic religions the crowds would be more like “Oh look how nice that they’re embracing something cool.”

For most in the military, GOD is a belief that has given many, many war heroes the faith and courage to carry on throughout all aspects of the military. This is a well known fact, and that is why it is freely taught throughout all branches of military services.

I am outraged that the United States Military would discriminate due to religious beilefs. This country was founded on religious freedom. Being an Agnostic I know how the general public judges my patrionism because of my personal belief system. I feel that Hall should be congratulated for standing up for his rights and the rights of every military personal. He as well as all the troops have done an amazing job in Iraq and no one should be punished for that. Equality in all workplaces are essential!

My time in Active duty status, Everyone was encourged to practice thier own religion whatever that may be. As far as the promotion being denied to him because he wasnt a christian, I was one of the very few Christains in my Active duty company, and Im just an E-3 Private First Class. Im in the Ohio Army National Guard now and religion both on active duty and in the Guard, I’ve never seen anyone pushed one way everyone is just left alone about what they believe in..

PFC CLYDE WILLIAMS
ALBANY OHIO

My Grandpa serve tin the US army in the North Korean war at that time was a converted Jew. He told me many stories about how his fellow soldiers where anti- semtic towards him and my grandpa had to argue with his fellow soldiers. I see this flaw has not change today but in fact has gotten worst by time

As a former Marine and recovering Christian I am now a proud Atheist and no for a fact the military is all about God first and country second. Just watch the recent PBS show Carrier, produced none other than Mel Gibson and they show how on the U.S.S. Nimitz and other aircraft carriers they are forced to listen over the ships intercom to nightly prays. This is just wrong and needs to be stopped. My father was a Pentecostal preacher and I went to Bible College and it is brain-washing pure and simple.

I’m an evangelical Christian and I am outraged by the treatment this soldier has received! At the end of the day, the soldiers who harassed this man aren’t acting like real Christians at all!

If the Pentagon is encouraging Christianity in the ranks of the US military, its only doing so in a twisted, unbiblical way – the same way the Vatican did during the Crusades to the European Knights who went off to fight. The Pentagon is doing this because they know that faith is a hard conviction to break and they want tough soldiers who won’t crack under pressure. They’ve encouraged the theologically FALSE concept of a “just war” and succeeded in deceiving these honorable men in uniform that they are fighting one when in reality this is one of the most ungodly, selfish, underhanded debacles ever launched by a so-called Christian nation! If they only knew they were fighting to defend the money grubbing, lust for power interests of Bush’s oil industry buddies and the world banking cartel they would get out alltogether!

The whole notion of a premptive war of aggression goes against every reasonable understanding of the teachings of Christ and His apostles. I believe this is one of the many ways faith-imposters like Bush are waging a war on Christianity itself by doing such evil in the “name of Jesus” that they are convincing millions of people that Christianity is bad – and from what some of you have wrote I’d say they are succeeding. Bush is a wolf in sheeps clothing folks! He’s using Christianity to manipulate people!

i am a Christian and i believe even though i am a believer i believe the person should choose whether he wants to follow God with their heart not forced too and God will deal accordingly with the individual, and i am going into the air force

Good night Anderson and all. I don’t usually watch much of CNN, but Anderson you seem to be more fair and balanced so I have been watching you more often. I like that about your show. Hope you keep it that way.

I am an active duty sailor in the Navy, and I have worked with personnel of every conceivable religious persuasion including evangelical Christian, Wiccan and yes, even Athiest. in 16 years I have never seen careers affected by beliefs and have seen little proseltyzing, none of it official. Atheism is just as much a “religious belief” as any other and I don’t want to listen to them proseltyzing either.

“Our’s is not to reason why, Our’s is just to do or die.” Has nothing to do with prayer or religious convictions. The Army is way off base here.

The military has always practiced religious discrimination based on the preferences of the higher ranks in an organization. I can remember many years ago when church call was given, if you went to the services you got several hours of breaks and goof off time, —if you didn’t go you were assigned to working parties, lawn mowing, picking up trash, butts etc. or maybe mess hall duty.

I would like to know why he became an athiest afer years of being a devout Christian. There has to be a reason as to why he changed his mind to such a large degree.

One nation under God!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Need I say more

That is why America is in trouble in all areas. Too many people who reason and have opinions are speaking out. How many moons have they set or suns have they caused to rise. Too much logic. Christianity is about faith. All these opinions and logics cannot stand up to the Word of God. Too many people don’t know it or it’s origin. They have not read it. You have a right not to believe. Continue to follow and watchn nonbelivers or disobedient believers.. Believers and unbelievers suffer. Non-believers because they are nonbelievers. Believers because of sin. We live in a fallen world where people want to do what they want to do wihout consequences. Obey and be blessed. Disobey and receive the curse.

This is just so hard to read. The way Mr. Hall was treated by so called christian is the opposite of what christianity is all about. Mr Hall is just as important as those christians who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior. HIS BLOOD WAS SHED FOR ALL! However, it is conditional. The eternal salvation is for all who believes according to JOHN 3:16. I guess when you are at war like IRAQ, people become less tolerant. BUT THIS SHOULD NOT MOVE christians at all. Instead they should extend grace, peace and love specially faith to the faithless. PLEASE read your bible, start with the gospel. (matt,Mark,Luke & JOhn).

Please don’t take prayers out of military! Yikes. You’ve done it in schools and look where it led us.

I really pray for this country and for AC!

Thank you for covering the issue of pressure in the military to be Christian. It is a serious issue. I believe my stepson was brainwashed into being a Christian. (I prefer not to be specific. He has a good career going.) I am spiritual, but not Christian, and I’ve seen CNN’s earlier programs about this travesty. Thank you for helping to expose this violation of Church and State, or this misuse of our military as Christian Soldiers. I expect the reason for making our soldiers Christians is to make them fight for their God even when they would object based on reasoned thinking. I still need to see your entire segment on this on my TIVO. Dave

Proud Athiest!!! AS an athiest, I’m glad someone is pointing out the hate towards no believers.
I’m tired of having religion shoved down my throat, or being labeled idot, lost, or damned to hell. No one should be forced to pray. In school, in the military, As an athiest I respect the right of others who do believe, good for them, and if I don’t …I’d just like to be left alone. Religion, belief system -should be a personal private matter. Great story, I hope good things come of this.
*And as another posted, I can’t wait for the day …if I’m even alive by then, but it would be nice to see an athiest president, I won’t hold my breath.

Being a Naval Academy graduate and served in the US Navy for over 8 years, I never felt any pressure to be a better or more Christian-like. My time at the Naval Academy introduced me to religions that I would never have been introduced. I have friends that were atheists and I never saw them be treated any different. Maybe times have changed, but I don’t think the problem is the military. The problem is in our country as a whole. More and more power is being welded by the religous leaders of this country and it is leading the country do a path of no return. Being a submariner, I trusted the people around us and less on a God that would safe us when something is going wrong. Looking back on my years onboard a submarine, I really don’t remember evaluating my division based on their individual religious beliefs; but on their individual performance. So, I really hope that this is not a true statement; but would not be shocked. The issue of pray at lunch at the Naval Academy. This should not be a big deal. No one forces you to pray. The chaplin (a man who respect all faith) says a prayer.

Finally. i am not suprised to see this and its a good thing for our country. Its a reminder that the atheists in this country are not going to back down from the intolerance that not just christians but other religious groups as well have towards them. and a reply to a post i read earlier about this country being founded upon christian principles 1. this country was based on one simple concept the freedom to choose and that includes the freedom to believe whatever you want and nobody can take that away from you and 2 if you could tell me where there is a direct connection from the constitution to christian principles i would really like to see. thank you.

Ahhh, the War on Christianity continues. I have heard about this soldier before and personally I think he is causing trouble. Funny, how most of the bloggers seem to be non-believers, typical of social liberals. I have a hard time believing this kid. I think he is carrying a chip on his shoulder because he didnt get a promotion and now he is stirring the pot, causing trouble.

I am also an atheist soldier, but I have not experienced anything like the Specialist in this story is describing. While it is true that during most military cerimonies there is a prayer said, usually by the chaplain, it seems more a matter of tradition than religion to me. I never participate in any prayers, but have never suffered any consequences for it; I don’t think anyone ever even noticed. If what this soldier is saying is true, and I suppose there’s no real reason to believe it isn’t, it seems to me to be an isolated incident. I think the problem here is that this soldier has poor leadership. I can’t imagine anyone in my chain of command allowing anything like this to go on. This is definitely not an Army-wide problem.

i am religious but in a different way. i march to my own band. it is funny 2 me that most people have their particular religious faiths only because they were born into it. they accept wat they have been told their whole life without doing their own research. if the minister says it is good, then it must be good. perception is in the eye of the beholder. wise up and learn all not just one religion and interpect them for yourself with your own view!!! be a leader, not a follower. i applaud him for having courage to even consider converting even though i do believe in god

Every has a personal right to their personal faith. The key word here is personal. There is no room for organized religion in the military or politics. What do we expect when we have a political environment which has used faithwedge issues to divide the parties. Politics and religion don’t mix. We have hundreds of years of bloody history to prove that.
-Riich

Christian moral was a vital part of the very birth of the American Nation. But so was the idea and, yes, the belief that all men are created equal.
I am from Bulgaria – a Christian country, but not a very relligious one. But everything that I adore about America has to do with what it stands for. And, yes, it’s that Christian moral that has a lot to do with the way the Unated States were created, but in that very creation the most important part is the idea that we are ALL equal, and our relligious faith or lack of it is not something we should be judged upon.
All the possibilities should be open to all the individuals.

The United States of America was founded upon the rock of religious freedom. It would be the downfall of our society to fall into the trap of Christian fundamentalism and its sanctimonious drivel, which has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

Religious belief is deeply personal and should remain that way. Religious sects should have no part in our military institutions, our educational system, or our government in general.

We as a people need to move forward, not return to the era of the Salem witch hunts.

Thanks for doing this story.

Being an atheist myself, I know what it’s like to get the occasional “You’re going to Hell” joke. Sure, it’s usually said in humor but I know there’s superstitious undertones that go along with it. However, that’s nothing compared to being ostracized in a military organization, whatever the reason! I have great empathy for Hall.

I experienced the same type of bias in the Air Force during the 70’s. The military had a policy on paper but did not monitor nor enforce that policy. I remember when getting my dog tags the airman would not put anything other than christian (nondenominational) on the tag for me. I put a hex on him.

Why is it that an atheist fighting for his country, is a bigger disgrace than a Ted Haggart, James Dobson, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, all of whom, shall we say, have issues, and how many of whom fought for their country??????

I can see a certain segment of the troops doing this – like locker room bantering with the dominate jocks using religious faith as tool to secure dominance in a pecking order. The real problem with these Evangelicals and the so-called Right is that they’ve constructed a God tailored to their own vanity, a God of their own choosing. Could be why following God always leads them in the wrong direction.

You’ve done a heck of a job, Bushie!

Well this is what happens when the leadership of the country missed the opportunity too Unite us under the flag. Instead they chose to ram god down the throats of the country without the slightest regard for the Constitution.

We were not a Bad Country before 911 but now we have gone to the extreme.
The American people are a good and caring people, Look at the response to the Tsunami, Katrina and the 911 Donations that came from the pockets of everyday American.

Taliban, Televangelist, and the unforgettable comment from GW Bush about “the Crusade” in the middle East is blurring the lines between a progressive and innovative country and the Middle Ages.

Let’s stop with the fear already …… And most christians should show God in their actions not just spouting the bible and the amatuerish interpretations.
BIBLE simply means ” Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth”

Let’s get on God’s Side …. Not claim he’s on our’s….

As a reply to a poster who said there are many ways to heaven besides Christianity which they claimed to be part of, did not Jesus say “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the father, but by me.” So if your religion contradicts your philosophy, one must be wrong. You decide.

There are atheists in foxholes and I’m testimony to it having served with the Marine Corps in I Corp. Viet Nam 1967-68 including February and March in Hue City. The only Hell was Hue City in February.

Sounds like a situation in which a man’s faith in God was challenged in the face of war and weakened as a result or proven to be lacking. Prayerfully at some point in his life Jeremy will once again find refuge in God’s grace and mercy.

Best wishes to MRFF and Mikey Weinstein for their efforts to get the US military to obey the constitution they fight for.

Our Military’s Christian Institution makes us sound like we’re all hypocrites when we say ‘our nation is the greatest because of religious freedom,…’

the religous right has done so much in the last 7 years to destroy what our founding fathers worked so hard to free us from. so sad. i say vote democrat across the board and free us again from a king george type ruler.

An Athetist has no authoirty, they have no beliefs unless they have established it, therefore they cannot be trusted in God’s army. the United States selected Christianty as the country’s religion and everything that has to do with the governement is based on Chrisitanity. Now let’s get this straight- this person is also denying and form of God, this means Islam, Jew, and all the other religions of the world that beleive in God. So who can trust him, when he serves himself as the master. if he does not want to pray then don’t,. I think in the world a song came out by Fantasia and it said “if you don’t want me then don’t talk to me go ahead and free yourself.” This youngman is bound, and filled mith misgivens that no one wants himaround, when it’s his spirit that is saying hate, hate, hate. Christians are not perfect, but they serve a perfect God, who speaks to them and tells them they belong to him. he teaches about love, and not separation. The youngman should not be in the Army, because the same way he is betraying thme now, is the character he displayed as a solider. I don’t want the enemy in the line of fire with our troops. The young man need to pray for understanding. He should that we still love him. Christians – Know the golden rule– Juda

As an 18 year old who just finished highschool and am looking forward to college. This story will distance me from the idea of serving my country; to pay for my college.

The Military is not a Christian organization, far from it. If anything, it has no religion in fact at all. That’s more dangerous than Atheism.
When you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.

This country was founded, in large part, due to religious intolerance. I believe that was what Felix was trying to say, (see earlier blog).
My oldest daughter “A”, has been Wiccan since 16, she is now 26. She has served her country, faithfully for six years, the last three on foreign soil. She has never had a problem with her choice of religion, never been “chastised” for not attending church or not participating in religious ceremonies, including group prayer.
I myself served in the Army in my 20’s, and consider myself Christian/Wiccan. Perhaps the problem lies within Jeremy Hall. We all choose to have different beliefs, perhaps some people are more easily offended when feeling persecuted. Others may smile to themselves and let it ride . It’s all a matter of perspecdtive.
The military was tough for me, however, my daughter thrives on it, has excelled and made it her career.
PS. Oh yes it is possible to be dual religious, as a matter of fact, the best of both. I was raised in the Christian faith, believe in the tenents of Christianity, especially the “10″, yet not all of the hypocrisy about you must be here at a certain time, with people and a pastor to claim it. I also have adopted the Wiccan ways for that is me, nature, nuture, growing my own, loving nature and believing in the eternal cycles of the earth. It’s not so much of a practice, but my life. The most interesting thing about both is the central theme, do no harm to none, Love is love.

The unbelieving(atheist) soldier is correct. All religions are myths. The supernatural is not real. There was no religion until homo sapiens developed the ability to talk and comunicate abstract thoughts with each other. In telling stories to each other they created many imaginary gods. People created God. God did not create people. I am not a believer. I am a humanitarian scientific realist.

The military, any military, is an organization that exists because of orthodoxy. You are told what to think by someone above you.The Christian model is a perfect fit. Devout religious belief sets an intellectual ceiling above which no devout follower will venture.Athism/Agnosticism is the exact opposite of this, and being so, is a direct threat to the military model as well.Coupled with this is the belief of many that the conflict in Iraq is a cultural conflict: Muslims vs Christians. One need only look at Mr Bush’s constant crusade rhetoric to affirm this. Our military then become a group of Christian Jihadists. This, unfortunately, is a symptom of a greater persecution of atheists in the US.

In George Washington’s first inaugural speech, he said “it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by them for these essential purposes”

I sometimes wonder how the “Father of Our Country” would be viewed in today’s society.

The majority faith in the United States is Christianity. This includes protestants and Catholics and other derivatives of individuals who believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and died for their sins. It is certainly expected that Christians would have an overwhelming presence in the military. In addition, given that our military goes in harms way, it would be expected that soldiers would get closer to their religion. I do not believe for a moment that the military is a Christian organization. I do believe that it has a very large number of Christians. The mere fact that a couple of people have the right and priviledge to sue because they believe their performance has not been recognized and are looking for a justification for not getting a promotion should not be used to indict the the military for discrimination. I am a Christian and have been in firefights earlier in my life. You think a lot about God and the meaning of life when this happens. My son is not a Christian and is serving his 2nd tour in Iraq. He just got promoted. These guys sound like whiners and unfortunately got unwarranted press coverage. I hope the military is able to send them the bill for the litigation costs. If you really believe that the military is a Christian organization, go listen to a drill sergeant for an hour.

Hey Lee Collins,

You wrote: “Who does he think has keep (sic) him alive in the war. I can’t blame any of the other soldiers at all for their actions because mine would have been the same.”

So your god is responsible for keeping Mr. Hall alive? What about the 4,000 plus troops who weren’t so lucky? Or the more than 30,000 who have been wounded? What was that?

Soldiers are of course entitled to their superstitions and delusions, but once they are put in command positions, they are not allowed to discriminate against subordinates who do not share them.

I don`t understand why Americans spend so much time abusing the legal system by suing practically for anything.

As an outsider, I see the US as the cradle of Democracy, and after analzing why it is so strong and lasted so long. I am convince that it has a lot to do with values and principles that are based in Christianity. I am sure that democracy would have never endure if it would have been base in an atheist doctrine.

I understand that we should not descriminate, but if the majority of the people in a groudçp decides to believe in God throuhg Christianity, why democracy does not prevails? The majority rules. That has to be respected.

Jorge
From Panama City, Rep of Panma

The military has enough pressure on them. Pray for this nation, and who ever hurt this young man’s heart.

I have been serving in the Marine Corps for over 18 years. I can’t speak for the other services, but I believe the Marine Corps is a Christian based organization. For example, at the beginning of official events, a Chaplin will give an invocation. In my experience, the Chaplin has always been Christian. In my company, there are people from other religions and they find this offensive, but we have to conform to this. Also, my company hosted a prayer breakfast in the chow hall and attendance was mandatory. There was a Christian Chaplin giving a Christian invocation. The non-Christian members were allowed to sit in another section of the chow hall, however they could still hear and see the event. Other events, like company Christmas party, are also mandatory. I think the Department of Defense should establish a policy to protect service members 1st Amendment rights, both Christian and non-Christian.

This is a CHRISTAIN NATION, founded on people with Christain Values, demostrated in our Constitution, Declairation of Independence.

But you don’t have to SUE the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT over it, Some Athiest are bad some are good, and some Christains shouldn’t carry the title.

But this is a Christain Nation. If you don’t like this Nation, go to France, Iran (Muslim -Required), China (Budda) etc and believe in Nothing Their.

We have gotten to OVER THE EDGE about CHRISTIANITY – (People are offended if you Teach and Have a Bible in your Pocket) –

Why are we not OFFENDED over the Koran? Budda?

Why are their No Law Suits from the ACLU (Whos suppose to protect our rights), but what about the Christan they are condemed by them.

Why do we have to always SUE against Christianity, (People complaining about people having Prayer Service – if you don’t want to get involved in PRAYER SERVICES – Please do leave the table, why would anybody want to stay – WERE ALL FREE HERE IN AMERICA WHETHER IT’S AT WORK OR AT HOME.

Why don’t they do something for PEOPLE who curse, say Bad Language, disrespect their parents, politicians or the Government.

Why? Because their is a LOWER POWER – Called the DEVIL = (minus the D = Evil – Practices, beliefs.

If you DON’T BELIEVE – That’s fine – Don’t try to take away Rights of those who do and Want to be FREE to Practice, whether at Home, Work or at the Dinner Table in Public – IT’S NOT A CRIME TO PRAY IN PUBLIC – (If you don’t want to be involved don’t, but don’t Sue). MY GOD (In Heaven and in Earth) HAVE SOME RESPECT…….

This Countries in Bad enough shape. Get a hobby and Let people leave their life that are not out their Hurting other people. Having Belief in something shouldn’t be condemed but blessed.

Suzette…..

A believer of a god is ones own mental indisposition. Therefore praying should be kept in the closet as is stated in the bible. Almost every war worldwide is fought over religion. Army Specialist Jeremy Hall should be given a medal of honor for being able to overcome the brainwashing.

Hey Donna,

the military may not be a religious organization, but believing in God and knowing that this world was not founded by the igornance of our knowledge helps them sleep at night. NOT EVERY DRILL SERGANT USES PROFANITY AND IF HE DOES HE CAN ALSO BE FORGIVEN.

All the polls I have seen says the majority of U.S. citizens are christians. Why in a democracy where majority rules is there so much trouble caused by one person. If we are going to be politically correct lets rule in favor of the majority. Plus military service is voluntary and no one is making these kids sign up. Lets use some common sense in discussing the issue. The military doesn’t want to risk losing new recruits. The issue will be resolved in short order to keep the United States well defended.

Having left The US Navy in 1969, I felt that the military was anti non-Christian back then. I was clearly not the most loved but was the only Jewish person on my ship. One incident had me going to talk to my LT JG at the time and his response was that since there was no Jewish Chaplain on my ship (LST 1141-USS Stone County) I was on my own and no one to turn to for help. I truly believe it to be still happening today…