Comments on: At the green gate, and then a glimpse of the polygamist's life

By: marie

marie — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 00:37:20 +0000

teenagers get pregnant all the time. ever been to the south side of chicago??? how many 16 year olds have 4 kids....LOTS! and they are all from different "baby daddies"
In our society little teenagers get pregnant all the time, but they kill their babies through abortion! Like modern day sex crazed young America is a shining example of purity and perfection for these people to shape their lives to.
Mary gave birth to Jesus at age 14. Mothers have been having babies in their teen years for thousands of years. Its just our American culture that thinks unless you have a huge house and a car and are 30, you should not have children.
Claims that this is wrong baised on that reasoning is hogwash.
Oh yeah, "sarah" is not coming foreward because she is "scared"?
whatever...I thought the state said that the children feel more secure without their elders around.....get real, there is no Sarah....ever hear of a prank phone call??
If there is abuse, then take the children....but prove it first, and give these poor mamas their babies back, or at least let them see them.
I think we are being totally prejiduced to these people because they are weird and dont cut their hair and dress in dresses and live differently than we do.

By: Woody

Woody — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 02:25:07 +0000

Freedom of religion doesn't mean allowing any nut to call himself a "prophet" and abuse people in the name of God. This is a fenced compound in the middle of nowhere – the women and children entrapped in it never get to leave or interact with the outside world.

I'm all for religious freedom, but this is nothing more than a cult with a propagation factory to grow its membership.

By: Kelly

Kelly — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:48:01 +0000

If anyone questions whether these children should be taken away, just read Carolyn Jessop's book ESCAPE. I have really followed any and all coverage on the FLDS since reading that book. The true account of her life and the lives of her children is horrifying. And to the lady who wrote the blog questioning whether or not Carolyn's story is true, do some research! There are quite a few women who have escaped the FLDS who give the same type of accounts of there lives. I feel terribly sorry for all of the children, because that is the only life they have ever known. However, if we can get these children into mainstream America, they can turn their lives around. I understand that the mother's miss their children, but they are endangering them by living this lifestyle. How many of us would allow our children to marry an old man and how many of us would want to have our teenagers pregnant at young ages? Teenage pregnancy can cause birth defects and problems to the mother's health as well as growth and development. I am all about freedom of religion, as long as the religion is law abiding and is not radical and endangering anyone. This one is obviously not law abiding considering bigamy is a crime and so is statuatory rape and incest!

By: Pam

Pam — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:30:11 +0000

Everyone seems to think that members of the FLDS have rights because of their religion – What religion? This is a cult full of dirty old men who like to have sex with little girls. What next – Are people going to be able to commit rape, robberies, murder and disguise it as being for religious purposes?
I don't understand what's wrong with people today? The men and women of the FLDS should all have to pay for what they are doing to these children. If my husband slept with a child and I knew he did it and did nothing to save that child then I would be just as much to blame as he was. If we allow the "God made me do it" defense to work then this country is in for a rude awakening.

By: biene@shaw.ca

biene@shaw.ca — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:33:26 +0000

It is very sad to see how the womwn and children are living.It looks like a convent or even a jail.there are no pictures on the walls.No paintings that the children painted or drew.No plants ,no flowers.no animals as in pets.
How do they even know who their Mother is ,they are all called mother.Do those women even have any kind of identication.Don't the children have to be registererd in the staate of Texas and any other.
Where are the 60 and 70 year old women.
It looks to me that if people there were to disapear nobody would know what happend.
This so called religion must be stopped and forbidden.

By: tamka

tamka — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:35:54 +0000

Yes, I am very tired, I will say this regardless of religion, these women sit by and allowed their daughters to be raped and beaten by men twice or three times their age do we not see a problem with this.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:35:05 +0000

Coming from 24 yrs in the regular LDS church and then accepting the true belief of Christ later...people don't understand the strength of the mind and how people cling to the comfort of what they know. If I still struggle with some prior beliefs, now knowing the truth, and I was only semi-isolated through training and upbringing – I can't imagine how total isolation would affect someone. People who say "freedom of religion" aren't thinking of the fact that being raised without choices to explore your freedom is no freedom at all. We are talking about three generations – over 100 yrs – of only knowing what someone else has decided is truth.

By: Cookie South Dakota

Cookie South Dakota — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:11:53 +0000

The person at the gate didn't make that decision, it had aleady been made before you asked. These men do nothing without the head guy, Merrill Jessop giving his ok. This looked like it was very well controled by the FLDS. They didn't answer all of your questions, and were very selective in their answers. sorry I feel it was a dog and pony show that the FLDS decided to do. Has anyone noticed the woman were crying but no tears, no red eyes. Ladies standing on the balcony were smiling and seemed to be enjoying all the attention. I am sorry but if someone had taken my children and I had just gone thru a week from home and then not even allowed to tell my children goodbye I would have cried the whole way home and had real tears and red eyes. I probably wouldn't want to speak to the media about it and just entered my home and cry some more. This was a complete setup by the FLDS and news media took it hook line and sinker.

By: Edwin

Edwin — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:19:21 +0000

I have read all that was said by so many people. I feel for the children, they must be so confused. I also feel for the families that are torn apart. But I also feel for the state. A difficult decision they had to take. Someone somewhere will have to take responsibility for what has happened and in the end a lot of dear children and their parents can get hurt. Some people in the blog says what of one child that was not abused, yet the other side of the coin is also, what of one that are abused. So a tricky and sad story no matter how you look at it. I hope of us come out the better person once this episode is finished.

By: Debbie, NJ

Debbie, NJ — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:35:05 +0000

It seems that everybody has forgotten that there are 14-16 year olds in custody that have children or are pregnant. And who do you think got them in this situation. I think that it is ridiculous that a group of people can hide behind religion and break laws. This is statutory rape. Marrying a child doesn't make it moral or legal. And if you truly believe the Bible, God never intended for man to have more than one wife. He allowed it in the old testament but Jesus clarified that law when he was here on earth.

By: Marcella

Marcella — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:18:48 +0000

Polygamy, as adultery, is already tolerated in this country, that doesn’t make it right. Whomever an adult wants to sleep with is nobodies business, but the consenting adults. The keyword is ADULT. The sexual abuse of the children is what the problem is here and it is widespread and needs to be dealt with swiftly and to the full extent of the law.

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:24:05 +0000

Does gender, race or religion matter? No matter what, it is not ok to indocrinate children to be acceptable to abuse whether physcial, mental or sexual. Sure the mothers want their children back, so do all the druggie moms. Even the ones who truly have physcially abused their kids. The fact that these children are well fed and look neat and clean shows these women have spent time taking care of their families, no one doubts that. What I want to know is, what kind of mother sends their young daughter off to old men to propogate children for the sole sake of increasing the number of people on this earth?, and what mother in her right mind would relinquish her daughter to be wife #7, never to be the special partner and confidant, but just a position among 7 other wives. Certianly we should be tolerant of others beliefs, but not to the extent of ignoring even ONE claim of child abuse. Let the adults at the YFZ ranch prove there was not even ONE case of a girl "married" under the age of 16. If they can prove that then every ear in America will turn a deaf ear to any further accusations. The Texas authorities did their best to locate all records pertaining to marriage and births. We will all know the truth in time. For now though we know for certian that there will be no more new underage wives being forced to consumate spiritual marriages.
What also suprised me is the fact that CPS seems to have had a hard time getting birth dates, How are they going to match up the parents and kids? I don't think there are too many 6 year olds out there who don't know their parents names and their own birthday and age. What foolish people these mothers are to lie to authorities when everything they do is crucial to how well this turns out in the end.
Texas DON'T BACK DOWN, make this a safe place for every person who resides in this huge state. Those 416 children & very young mothers included.

By: Raul

Raul — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:35:12 +0000

I think this is looking like the authorities over-reached. If an unknown child calls from a subdivision saying he/she is being abused, would the police come and take all the children in the neighborhood? Is that a reasonable response? As far as I know, the authorities don't even know if they have the allegedly abused girl or not.
I'm not affiliated with FLDS and personally consider their beliefs are on the strange side. But I think people should be able to pursue their faith freely, that's how the USA got started after all. It seems this people are being persecuted because their religion is considered weird by many.
From what has been disclosed, it doesn't seem like Texas authorities had enough evidence to take all this children away from their parents. I'm not surprised though, that is Texas y'all.

By: Amatullah

Amatullah — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:09:02 +0000

Sidney, you could be right or you could be wrong. Fact is, there is no evidence whatsoever to support you claim against this particular group of people. One phone call against an alleged abuser who was later found to not have lived in the state for many years, is not proof. It's not even suspicion. Everyone's concern is completely fictional. You cannot impose other people's behavior on these people. In fact, if even ONE family is wrongly tore apart here (meaning there was no sexual abuse or otherwise), then this is a tragedy. I am tired of seeing women who have been abused by their often christian husbands, think it is their job to "save the world," and assume that every situation is similar to their experience. In other words, some people tend to go overboard to save a few. However, in this country, you are considered innocent until proven guilty, which is one of the major differences between a barbaric and civilized society. Not a single child should be taken from its home without credible PROBABLE CAUSE. A tip that is not credible is NOT probable cause. I know most americans don't even understand what PROBABLE CAUSE means, so I'm probably wasting my time here. However, I simply ask society to back off with the accusations and provide the proof if they are so right.

I believe that most or all of the children will be returned and the state will be forced to apologize and perhaps compensate the wrongly affect families. It is time for the families to begin suing the state right now, to fight for ALL american's right to their children without cause for removal. Some social workers are over-zealous and over-react when facing an unknown cultural difference, assuming the worst and basing it on what they see on t.v. and movies. Each person is to be treated as an individual, no matter what religion they claim to be. After all, no two people in any religion believe identical and they have the right to be charged with their own crimes and not the crimes of the others in the past.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:53:07 +0000

I think it's quite obvious that these women have no idea that what was occurring in their children is very wrong, not to mention illegal. They have turned a blind eye to the abuse of underage girls because that was easier than standing up to their leaders and face the consequences.

It is unfortunate that children had to be separated from their mothers, however I don't see how it the welfare of these children could be protected otherwise. I definitely support and applaude the actions of the Texan authorities.

Christina

By: Amatullah

Amatullah — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:44:55 +0000

In the USA, men are allowed to have a wife and as many women and children on the side as they want. Otherwise, the state would be "policing the bedroom." It is ONLY illegal if the man obtains marriage certificates for more than wife. And believe me, there are men who have done that -- and been convicted for it when found out years later - because it is a major form of deception.

That is what illegal. What this sect is doing is not illegal. 16 year olds can get married in that state, with parental permission. They can also choose to have sex at 16.

While many find it distasteful that the person the 16 year old is having sex with is twice her age, remember that the american PIONEERS did the same thing, and this has happened all throughout history without concern. It was not until recent times that the major age difference has been considered distasteful.

People are assuming that the children are forced and the women are brain-washed. Perhaps it is the opposite – that the general society is brainwashed about women's roles and enslaved to fulfilling a sex-symbol type of role. I think it is wonderful to see parents so dedicated to raising such beautiful little children. And nobody would deny that these children are smart, well-cared for, safe and happy.

I have heard nothing but good about these precious little children. Some women think it's a crime to force them to wear dresses and would have the families town apart over that issue alone. You think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. Obviously, based on the statements to the press, many of the baptist women saw this holocaust as a mission from God to proselytize the sect.

If, however, the state can prove or has substantial evidence that any law is actually being broken, then they can legally remove the man or men who are accused. If they can't convict, they must return the children. It is inexcusable to remove an entire block or two of children from their various home. Can anyone say "witch hunt"?

By: Sidney Smith

Sidney Smith — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:17:34 +0000

As I read and listen about this situation, I can't help but think of "the lost boys" that sat on the steps of Utah's capital. They had been banished from their polygamy compounds for one minor offense after another. There ages were 16 to 18. They had no formal education. Many couldn't read and write. The "old" men were marrying the young girls. If one of the young men and young women acted as if they romantically cared for each other, the young man was banished. I felt so bad for these young boys.

Yes polygamy is against the law and the laws of the land need to be upheld. They know it is against the law. Why else to they hide. It is very much a "controlling" situation with the men in "control. So many of the women exhibit typical signs of women who have been abused emotionally.

I don't believe, we as a public, fully understand what has/is going on behind those closed gates. The fear, the emotional abuse, the physical abused disguised under the umbrella a religion, the belittling...... Knowledge is power and freedom, without it, you have control and abuse.

By: Annie Kate

Annie Kate — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:06:50 +0000

David

I have enjoyed your coverage of this and was surprised also when they let you into the compound. This story is unbelievable in a lot of ways – that this sort of lifestyle can exist in the US where it is clearly against the law. While I feel for any mother who loses custody of their child, this story is about child abuse and not religious persecution despite what the FLDS women believe.

What I don't understand is why the law does not prosecute these people for practicing polygamy.. Even if there is not but one marriage license the substance of their lives is still polygamy.

Annie Kate
Birmingham AL

By: Leatriana

Leatriana — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:58:53 +0000

Yes, I believe in freedom of religion, however, that is not the whole story. We are talking about more than just freedom of religion, we are also talking about a child's right to live a life free of abuse. Let those who wish to practice this religion practice it but do not let them force feed the religion and abuse that comes with the religion on children. Just the thought of sweet young girls being forced into marriage with old men makes my stomach turn. The pressure put on those girls to be "good" wifes is disgusting. They have a right to their religion but our country has an obligation to protect every child. Religion is not an excuse for rape!!!

By: Nikki Pignotti

Nikki Pignotti — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:28:34 +0000

I am only 20 years old and as I am reading these comments some of you are completely ridiculous. Why does everything have to go back to religion or some other mass topic. Get over it, look beyond that. This is about a child claiming to be abused by an adult man. I don't see why everyone is so shocked by the fact that these 416 children were taken away. If this were to be just a single split family home and a 16 year old child called the police and said my mom's boyfriend is raping me," the police would come to the house and take ALL of the children away not just the one calling. A large percent of the time, only a so many of the children are strong enough to stand up and say this is wrong and I can't take it anymore.

Why are these mothers who obviously can't protect their children being stood up for? Why is it so insane they took all these kids away to make sure they are not in any danger? Is it because it's 416? Quit looking at the number of kids and the religion. Look at the facts. If you are that messed up in the head to think that it does not matter that a 16 year old girl is being mallested or abused in a house of how many women that won't protect her then quit watching the news. You are no better than any of those being caught and put on the news.